iamasadlittleboy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 ...to be thrown to the wolves? Golden Boy Promotions seems to have a knack of building up prospect by feeding them tomato cans then making them jump from average level of opponents to world level. In '09 it was Victor Ortiz who went in against Marcos Maidana and crawled around like a dog trying to get the fight finished, whilst last year Daniel Jacobs was left sprawled by Dmitry Pirog who proved that Jacobs wasn't all that. So the big question is who will Golden Boy throw to the wolves in 2011? If history wants to repeat it's self, then watch out Saul “Canelo” Alvarez. The past 2 years Golden Boy Promotions stars in the making, both Ortiz (in '08) and Jacobs (in '09) were the ESPN prospect of the year, the following year they lost. Worryingly the 2010 prospect of the year according to ESPN is Saul, could ESPN curse strike again? Continued here: http://hubpages.com/hub/Who-will-be-the-2011-Golden-Boy-Promotions-sacrificial-lamb[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbrawler Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think Alvarez is a class above those 2 fighters. He seems to have a lot more about him, but I guess only time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Like a loss has ruined Jacobs!! Lets not talk nonesense now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skav Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Like a loss has ruined Jacobs!! Lets not talk nonesense now! True but the one to Maidana has ruined Ortiz. He told us more about himself in that fight than any other, especially when he waved his hands to the ref to say that he didn't want to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Like a loss has ruined Jacobs!! Lets not talk nonesense now! True but the one to Maidana has ruined Ortiz. He told us more about himself in that fight than any other, especially when he waved his hands to the ref to say that he didn't want to continue. Take the confidence from a fighter who needs it and he'll never be the same. Look at Ortiz recently, he recently blew the fight with Peterson, it may as well have been an L for all the good that draw will do. Jacobs has fought once against a complete tomato can, if nothing else his career will be held back for 3 or even 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 yeah i could definitely see canelo losing soon. there are some tricky fighters at 154/147. though i think golden boy will have learned their lesson. however, as a fan, i hope they haven't learned their lesson. not that i want to see canelo lose... but ortiz-maidana was a very good fight and pirog produced a sensational KO of jacobs. its much better than these prospects from other promoters like top rank that go through the ranks with the lowest risks possible. golden boy isnt yet known for creating stars from the beginning, but they certainly have shown with amir khan they have the ability to bring fighters back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbrawler Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 yeah i could definitely see canelo losing soon. there are some tricky fighters at 154/147. though i think golden boy will have learned their lesson. however, as a fan, i hope they haven't learned their lesson. not that i want to see canelo lose... but ortiz-maidana was a very good fight and pirog produced a sensational KO of jacobs. its much better than these prospects from other promoters like top rank that go through the ranks with the lowest risks possible. golden boy isnt yet known for creating stars from the beginning, but they certainly have shown with amir khan they have the ability to bring fighters back. I think you're taking the example of the likes of Chavez Jr and applying it to all of Top Rank's fighters all too easily... Bear in mind that they've actually been the best at risking their prospects against top level opposition in the past few years; Donaire Gamboa Juanma Peterson Montiel etc etc They may be getting a hard time for all the so-called "in-house" fighting, but that is part and parcel of Arum having signed up a lot of the best boxers in the world. Outside of the couple of obvious ones, there are very few Top Rank fighters you can accuse of going through the ranks without taking a good degree of risk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Alvarez needs to tighten the defence. He's a quality fight but he likes to engage too often and while that often means excitement it could cut his career short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ko Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Alvarez needs to tighten the defence. He's a quality fight but he likes to engage too often and while that often means excitement it could cut his career short. Really not sold on Alvarez, Slow and has a poor defence, he been a Hatton type fighter, very popular and fights with alot of heart, but will lose more and get to many tough fights to early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbrawler Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 A lot of people don't seem to be too convinced by Alvarez just now? I haven't seen the N'Dou fight, but I'm guessing he wasn't up to much by the time a lot of people's opinions of him have lowered? I've always liked what I've seen from him anyway, and I also like the fact he's kept busy, like a lot of Mexican and South American prospects. 36 fights for a 20 year old is pretty immense, even if a lot of those were not much better than exhibition bouts. Fighting a variety of opponents can only be good for his development anyway, and he probably has more experience than a lot of fighters 5 or 10 years older. Fighting so often isn't going to keep him unbeaten, but I'd much rather see a boxer getting in the ring 7 or 8 times a year and mixing it up against varying levels of opponents, than fighting twice a year in reasonable (or sometimes not even that) fights. A lot of fighters seem to find a level where they can make enough money from single bouts that they totally neglect what is essentially their "jobs" and their activity levels totally drop. Alvarez is better than the trinket Silver title he's got just now anyway imo, and while he won't beat everybody, he has enough about him already to beat a lot of the better fighters in the division, and if he keeps gaining more experience in a short space of time, then he can only get better and keep developing imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 yeah i could definitely see canelo losing soon. there are some tricky fighters at 154/147. though i think golden boy will have learned their lesson. however, as a fan, i hope they haven't learned their lesson. not that i want to see canelo lose... but ortiz-maidana was a very good fight and pirog produced a sensational KO of jacobs. its much better than these prospects from other promoters like top rank that go through the ranks with the lowest risks possible. golden boy isnt yet known for creating stars from the beginning, but they certainly have shown with amir khan they have the ability to bring fighters back. I think you're taking the example of the likes of Chavez Jr and applying it to all of Top Rank's fighters all too easily... Bear in mind that they've actually been the best at risking their prospects against top level opposition in the past few years; Donaire Gamboa Juanma Peterson Montiel etc etc They may be getting a hard time for all the so-called "in-house" fighting, but that is part and parcel of Arum having signed up a lot of the best boxers in the world. Outside of the couple of obvious ones, there are very few Top Rank fighters you can accuse of going through the ranks without taking a good degree of risk... all of those fighters other than peterson and montiel have been feasting on easy fighters. really thats biggest criticism of chavez, donaire, gamboa, and juanma --- to many soft opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wouldn't call Donaire, Gamboa, Juanmaa or Montiel prospects their all world bloody champions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbrawler Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Wouldn't call Donaire, Gamboa, Juanmaa or Montiel prospects their all world bloody champions! And they've all done it against a good level of opponent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Wouldn't call Donaire, Gamboa, Juanmaa or Montiel prospects their all world bloody champions! And they've all done it against a good level of opponent... thats debatable... gamboa has fought... salido? donaire has fought... darchinyan? sidorenko? juanma has fought... lueveno? marquez? hardly setting the world on fire. ill give donaire credit as it looks like montiel-donaire is happening. but gamboa and juanma should be fighting each other or caballero and chris john not the bum of the month club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edsel77x Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 yeah i could definitely see canelo losing soon. there are some tricky fighters at 154/147. though i think golden boy will have learned their lesson. however, as a fan, i hope they haven't learned their lesson. not that i want to see canelo lose... but ortiz-maidana was a very good fight and pirog produced a sensational KO of jacobs. its much better than these prospects from other promoters like top rank that go through the ranks with the lowest risks possible. golden boy isnt yet known for creating stars from the beginning, but they certainly have shown with amir khan they have the ability to bring fighters back. I think you're taking the example of the likes of Chavez Jr and applying it to all of Top Rank's fighters all too easily... Bear in mind that they've actually been the best at risking their prospects against top level opposition in the past few years; Donaire Gamboa Juanma Peterson Montiel etc etc They may be getting a hard time for all the so-called "in-house" fighting, but that is part and parcel of Arum having signed up a lot of the best boxers in the world. Outside of the couple of obvious ones, there are very few Top Rank fighters you can accuse of going through the ranks without taking a good degree of risk... Absolutely correct. We'll say Miguel Cotto, no need to say anything more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbrawler Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Wouldn't call Donaire, Gamboa, Juanmaa or Montiel prospects their all world bloody champions! And they've all done it against a good level of opponent... thats debatable... gamboa has fought... salido? donaire has fought... darchinyan? sidorenko? juanma has fought... lueveno? marquez? hardly setting the world on fire. ill give donaire credit as it looks like montiel-donaire is happening. but gamboa and juanma should be fighting each other or caballero and chris john not the bum of the month club. Luevano and Marquez, in particular, in the "bum of the month club"....??? I've heard it all now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Wouldn't call Donaire, Gamboa, Juanmaa or Montiel prospects their all world bloody champions! And they've all done it against a good level of opponent... thats debatable... gamboa has fought... salido? donaire has fought... darchinyan? sidorenko? juanma has fought... lueveno? marquez? hardly setting the world on fire. ill give donaire credit as it looks like montiel-donaire is happening. but gamboa and juanma should be fighting each other or caballero and chris john not the bum of the month club. Luevano and Marquez, in particular, in the "bum of the month club"....??? I've heard it all now... no, those were the most legit opponents they faced. the rest of their resumes are thin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Ponce De Leon isn't a bad win for Juanma or Penalosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Ponce De Leon isn't a bad win for Juanma or Penalosa yeah good point on ponce but gerry was undersized. in fact id say that it could be argued that ponce is still juanma's best win. i didnt sit in front of boxrec while making that list so there are probably others im forgetting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Penalosa was small, but it was still a good fight. Hate the fact Gerry seems to be forgotten in any and every talk about great chins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Penalosa was small, but it was still a good fight. Hate the fact Gerry seems to be forgotten in any and every talk about great chins yeah but thats all he showed in that fight... a great chin. of course that is mostly due to juanma. however that was a mismatch going in, penalosa was old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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