Mayweather jr vs Pacquiao: Year by year

[londoner]

Mayweather jr vs Pacquiao: Year by year

 

I have analysed the last decade in the careers of the two best boxers around today: Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

 

I think it's quite accurate although maybe some people might disagree.

 

2000:

 

Mayweather jr wins 2000 with wins against Vargas and Augustus. Augustus has always been considered a good competitor and Vargas, despite his 6 losses, had mainly lost to quality opposition and was on a winning streak.

 

2001:

 

Mayweather jr wins 2001 with wins against Corrales, Hernandez and Chavez.

 

2002:

 

Mayweather jr wins 2002 for two wins against Castillo, even though the first win was very dubious.

 

2003:

 

Pacquiao wins 2003 by a mile. He beat Marco Antonio Barrera, one of the p4p best fighters in the World whose last 5 wins/fights were against Kevin Kelley, Johnny Tapia, Erik Morales, Enrique Sanchez, Naseem Hamed. After Pacquiao beat Barrera around the ring, Barrera would then go on to beat Ayala, Morales, Fana, Peden, Juarez (twice) over the next 3 years. Hardly a washed up Barrera.

 

Victoriano Sosa looked like he had a good record of 35-2-2, until you actually read it. Sosa hadn't fought anybody worth a mention aside from Paul Spadafora. Phillip N'dou was coming off of a 5 year unbeaten streak. During those 5 years though, the only guy he beat we would all recognise is Cassius Baloyi.

 

2004:

 

Pacquiao wins 2004 for his win against Fahsan 3K and draw with Marquez.

 

Mayweather jr fought once in 2004 against DeMarcus Corley, a guy whose recent wins were against felix Flores, Ener Julio and Rendall Bailey (all of his fights before were early bouts such as journeymen). His bout immediately before his bout with Floyd was a loss to Zab Judah.

 

2005:

 

Mayweather jr wins 2005 despite only beating Sharmba Mitchell, who a year earlier had suffered a 3rd round KO loss to Kostya Tszyu (the King at 140), Arturo Gatti, a guy who had been in wars against the likes of Micky Ward, ODLH, Ivan Robinson, Rafael Ruelas etc and Henry Bruseles, a guy coming off of a draw with Ener Julio.

 

But, Pacquiao only fought twice and was 1-1 (Velasquez win and Morales loss).

 

2006:

 

Pacquiao wins 2006 clearly with two wins against Morales and a win against Larios.

 

Mayweather beat Zab Judah, who was coming off a 12 round loss to the great Carlos Baldomir and he beat Baldomir.

 

SIDE NOTE: Instead of fighting Kostya Tszyu somewhere between 2003-2005, Floyd fought Sharmba Mitchell and then Zab Judah in 2006. Two guys Tszyu destroyed.

 

2007:

 

Mayweather jr wins 2007 with wins against ODLH and Hatton.

 

Pacquiao's wins were against a past his prime Barrera and undefeated Solis (whose record wasn't as good as the undefeated Hatton).

 

2008:

 

Pacquiao wins 2008 with wins against Marquez, Diaz and ODLH.

 

Mayweather jr didn't fight in 2008 though.

 

2009:

 

Pacquiao wins 2009 with brutal KOs of Hatton and Cotto. Two guys who many believed would be "too big and strong" for Pacquiao.

 

Mayweather jr beat up a fat midget in Marquez.

 

2010:

 

Pacquiao wins 2010 with a precise punching exhibition against Clottey and then a brutal display against Margarito.

 

Mayweather jr beat Mosley, a guy who hadn't fought in 15 months.

 

For the decade (well 11 years) i have it:

 

Pacquiao - 6

Mayweather jr - 5

 

And if we take away 2010, as not being part of the last decade i have it 5-5.

 

However, the head to head battle of each year isn't why i have Pacquiao as the fighter of the last decade. Not at all. Neither does any expert.

 

Let's say Sugar Ray Robinson had beaten all of the HOFers he beat from 1940 to 1943. But, then some other fighter beat a load of other VERY GOOD (but not quite as good) opponents in the next 7 years. Then the head to head battle would show the other fighter to have been a better fighter than SRR. Which is untrue.

 

The records are compared over an entire timespan and not just year by year.

 

Pacquiao has a superior record to Mayweather jr as Pacquiao has beaten several fighters who were THE MAN (so to speak) in their weight class:

 

- Barrera at 126

- Marquez at 130

- Hatton at 140

- Cotto at 147

 

And there is a case to be made for his win against IBF super bantamweight champion Ledwaba.

 

Mayweather jr has ONE name like that on his record: Castillo. The number one fighter at 135. But, the first win was very dubious.

 

- Mosley wasn't the number 1 guy at 147 when he beat him.

 

- Marqeuz wasn't the number 1 guy at 147 either.

 

- ODLH wasn't the number 1 guy at 154 when he beat him. ODLH had dethroned Mayorga and then defended against Floyd. This is the equivalent to David Diaz winning the 135 WBC World title and defending it against Pacquiao. Or even Pacquiao fighting Margarito for the 154 vacant WBC World title. In fact, Pacquiao's win over Margarito at 150 was far more impressive than Floyd's win over ODLH at 154.

 

- Baldomir was the WBC champion at 147 but this is exactly the same as Pacquiao's win over David Diaz also. The guy was a paper champion and Floyd dethroned him.

 

- We could make a case that Arturo Gatti was the lineal champion at 140. However, the case falls flat because of two names: Kostya Tszyu and Ricky Hatton. Both of those guys would've flattened the 2005 Gatti.

 

- At 130lbs, which is always rated as being the best weight he fought at, Floyd didn't even beat the lineal champion.

 

He beat Genaro Hernandez for the 130 WBC title in Hernadez' final bout after 14 years as a professional. He didn't unify the titles at 130 either despite Acelino Freitas holding the WBO title and Joel Casamayor holding the WBA title.

 

The only big fight Floyd had at 130 was against Diego Corrales, who was not the lineal champion.

[gavpowell]

Re: Mayweather jr vs Pacquiao: Year by year

 

- Baldomir was the WBC champion at 147 but this is exactly the same as Pacquiao's win over David Diaz also. The guy was a paper champion and Floyd dethroned him.

 

That's just ludicrous - David Diaz happened to pick up a belt to become interim champion and then somehow became champion proper, his first fight for the real championship being against a shot-to-fuck Erik Morales.

 

Mayweather was intending to fight Judah anyway - they just had to come through their next fights and Judah's titles would be on the line. Judah managed to lose a fight against Baldomir so screwed that fight's prestige. Mayweather beat him for the belt he had left and then beat Baldomir for his belts plus the lineal title he got from beating Judah.

[brooklynbrawler]

Re: Mayweather jr vs Pacquiao: Year by year

 

- Baldomir was the WBC champion at 147 but this is exactly the same as Pacquiao's win over David Diaz also. The guy was a paper champion and Floyd dethroned him.

 

That's just ludicrous - David Diaz happened to pick up a belt to become interim champion and then somehow became champion proper, his first fight for the real championship being against a shot-to-F*** Erik Morales.

 

Mayweather was intending to fight Judah anyway - they just had to come through their next fights and Judah's titles would be on the line. Judah managed to lose a fight against Baldomir so screwed that fight's prestige. Mayweather beat him for the belt he had left and then beat Baldomir for his belts plus the lineal title he got from beating Judah.

 

 

 

Was Judah the lineal champion after losing to a journeyman in the very previous fight? I doubt it.

Judah shouldn't have had a belt left, but politics somehow left him with one, despite defeat.

I can still see why they fought, but has Judah had a top level win since? Nope.

And he's still been campaigning for the past 5 years.

 

Baldomir got lucky in one fight, and Mayweather jumped on it. Inevitably someone had to, but it's not surprising that it was Floyd.

 

Taking this statement at face value, was Baldomir a far superior opponent to Diaz? They were both equally poor imo.

[londoner]

Re: Mayweather jr vs Pacquiao: Year by year

 

- Baldomir was the WBC champion at 147 but this is exactly the same as Pacquiao's win over David Diaz also. The guy was a paper champion and Floyd dethroned him.

 

That's just ludicrous - David Diaz happened to pick up a belt to become interim champion and then somehow became champion proper, his first fight for the real championship being against a shot-to-F*** Erik Morales.

 

Mayweather was intending to fight Judah anyway - they just had to come through their next fights and Judah's titles would be on the line. Judah managed to lose a fight against Baldomir so screwed that fight's prestige. Mayweather beat him for the belt he had left and then beat Baldomir for his belts plus the lineal title he got from beating Judah.

 

"Mayweather was intending to fight Judah anyway".

 

He was and the loss to Baldomir made that fight look dreadful.

 

Ricky Hatton was lined up to fight Arturo Gatti not long after Hatton had beaten Kostya Tszyu. I can't remember exactly what opponent it was now (it was on Sky though). Anyway, Gatti loses and in the Sky studio: The guys say "Well, that has scuppered that bout". In other words, Gatti losing does nothing for a bout against Hatton.

 

Why would Judah losing to Baldomir not be any different to the above scenario?

 

My MAIN point though was this:

 

A LINEAL champion is "the best fighter at a weight class". In my opinion, we can throw all the belts away, they're meaningless. So for me it is the best fighter at the weight.

 

Who was the best fighter: Cory Spinks (WBC, WBA, IBF), Zab Judah (won the 3 belts from Spinks) or Antonio Margarito (WBO)?

 

Margarito was the WBO champion from 2002 until 2007 (he lost to Daniel Santos in 2004 but won the title back 5 months later).

 

Carlos Baldomir won the WBC title from Judah, defended it against an ancient Arturo Gatti (2006) and then challenged Floyd.

 

That's hardly a great reign as champion. Baldomir also had 9 losses going in against Floyd.

 

David Diaz had ONE loss (against Kendall Holt). I agree he didn't deserve to be a World champion. That's a given.

 

But, i would maybe put Baldomir 1% higher up than Diaz, not much more.

[gavpowell]

Brooklyn - i was referring to Judah being the lineal champion when he fought Baldomir.

 

As to lineal championships - you beat the man who beat the man, or if the man retires and you unify the division, which was more or less decided by Spinks v Judah.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Linear championships are daft and seem to be decided depending on the fighter...Erdei is still the linear champion at 175...though the "man" seems to be Pascal.

[iamasadlittleboy]

O_o any idea why the IBF stripped Forrest in the first place?

[gavpowell]

They didn't - he vacated to chase Mosley. turned out to be a wise decision.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Hmm fair enough.

[londoner]

As to lineal championships - you beat the man who beat the man, or if the man retires and you unify the division, which was more or less decided by Spinks v Judah.

 

I agree that is what it should be.

 

But, in today's "anybody can win a title" era, having 3 belts isn't that tough. The only tough part really is getting all 3 orgs to allow all 3 titles to be on the line in the same bout.

 

So for me, i'd say lineal has more to do with who "The man" is. And IMO, Margarito was by far the best fighter at 147lbs in the early to mid 2000s before Miguel Cotto came along and became the number 1 fighter. Cotto was then subsequently beaten by Margarito, which adds to Margarito's cause.

 

Although, of course, he now has the hand wraps scandal hanging over him.

[gavpowell]

I just felt before the handwraps he had the "one dimensional and shit" scandal hanging over him.

[grapevine241]

a lineal champ is the man who beat the man who beat the man and so on...

 

pacquiao earned 4 (the record) lineal titles: fly, feather, j.light, j.welter

mayweather earned 2 lineal titles: light, welter

[McBride]

For what its worth i think all lineal championships are crap, but yes Judah was the lineal champion when he beat Spinks, so by beating him and the man who also beat him Mayweather must have got the stupid tag, no matter how much it upsets londoner, or any other anti Mayweather freaks.

 

I love the way Pakow gets 2004 for beating up a f**ing battery who had already lost 7 times, and a draw that was just as controversial as the 1 st Castillo / Mayweather fight. Mayweather had justr come up from Lightweight, and gets Corley for an eliminator, he tries to get Hatton, and is refused, he then beats the shit out of Bruseles to try and force Cotto into the ring, again he gets nowhere cos Uncle Bob knows his cash cow is too slow to do anything against Mayweather, so he nicks a belt from Gatti and moves up again.

 

Just for the record, by the end of 2004 ( the year in which Mayweather only had the 1 fight ) Judah had moved up to 147, so how the f**k was Mayweather supposed to fight him at 140?

 

Dont bother with anymore of your " balanced " reviews londoner, just spew out how much you really despise Mayweather. You never know, by the end of the year you could probably have a few numpties believing he was responsible for 9 / 11, and is also a paedophile.

[Skav]

For what its worth i think all lineal championships are crap, but yes Judah was the lineal champion when he beat Spinks, so by beating him and the man who also beat him Mayweather must have got the stupid tag, no matter how much it upsets londoner, or any other anti Mayweather freaks.

 

I love the way Pakow gets 2004 for beating up a f**ing battery who had already lost 7 times, and a draw that was just as controversial as the 1 st Castillo / Mayweather fight. Mayweather had justr come up from Lightweight, and gets Corley for an eliminator, he tries to get Hatton, and is refused, he then beats the shit out of Bruseles to try and force Cotto into the ring, again he gets nowhere cos Uncle Bob knows his cash cow is too slow to do anything against Mayweather, so he nicks a belt from Gatti and moves up again.

 

Just for the record, by the end of 2004 ( the year in which Mayweather only had the 1 fight ) Judah had moved up to 147, so how the f**k was Mayweather supposed to fight him at 140?

 

Dont bother with anymore of your " balanced " reviews londoner, just spew out how much you really despise Mayweather. You never know, by the end of the year you could probably have a few numpties believing he was responsible for 9 / 11, and is also a paedophile.

 

And, yet, you do not call yourself a Fraud fan?

 

Also, here is some "outside" thinking for yer. Ever thought that Floyd called the Hatton fight at 140 fully well knowing that the offer would be turned down?

 

Thinking that is not much of a stretch considering that it's a possibility that he bought up this steroid stuff on purpose to get out of a fight with Manny. And I said "possibility".

 

I think a lot of people are also forgetting that Mayweather had "retired" after the De La Hoya fight, too. And, again, it was a fight in which the flood gates would have shot wide open for some mega fights, yet, Floyd played it safe and fought a blown up 147 Hatton.

 

When excuses such as that Floyd may go to MMA or wrestling, his body's breaking down or that he's simply bored with boxing, then it's no wonder that people pick on him.

 

The man is also a walking contradiction. Here is an example:

 

" "I'm through. Once I tell people I'm through, I'm through. People say, 'Oh, he retired and came back, after the De La Hoya fight.' I didn't retire and come back. I just fought one more fight, against Ricky Hatton."

 

So, he didn't say he was going to retire before the Oscar fight, no?

 

Floyd also said the same retirement crap even before facing Oscar. If anybody cannot see that he's playing the sport safe then they cannot be helped. Leonard also chose to retire for a while to let Hagler get old so he could beat him.

 

Floyd doesn't help his cause.

[brooklynbrawler]

Brooklyn - i was referring to Judah being the lineal champion when he fought Baldomir.

 

As to lineal championships - you beat the man who beat the man, or if the man retires and you unify the division, which was more or less decided by Spinks v Judah.

 

Fair do's, I guess you're right in that case.

Even the Judah fight though - Floyd was knocked down in R2, it wasn't counted. He was rocked a few times. He should have been disqualified in R10 when Roger Mayweather entered the ring.

He may have dominated down the stretch, but Judah is infamous for fading down the stretch, and for going into his shell at the slightest of pressure.

[londoner]

For what its worth i think all lineal championships are crap, but yes Judah was the lineal champion when he beat Spinks, so by beating him and the man who also beat him Mayweather must have got the stupid tag, no matter how much it upsets londoner, or any other anti Mayweather freaks.

 

I love the way Pakow gets 2004 for beating up a f**ing battery who had already lost 7 times, and a draw that was just as controversial as the 1 st Castillo / Mayweather fight. Mayweather had justr come up from Lightweight, and gets Corley for an eliminator, he tries to get Hatton, and is refused, he then beats the shit out of Bruseles to try and force Cotto into the ring, again he gets nowhere cos Uncle Bob knows his cash cow is too slow to do anything against Mayweather, so he nicks a belt from Gatti and moves up again.

 

Just for the record, by the end of 2004 ( the year in which Mayweather only had the 1 fight ) Judah had moved up to 147, so how the f**k was Mayweather supposed to fight him at 140?

 

Dont bother with anymore of your " balanced " reviews londoner, just spew out how much you really despise Mayweather. You never know, by the end of the year you could probably have a few numpties believing he was responsible for 9 / 11, and is also a paedophile.

 

- Pacquiao gets 2004 in my review because he got a draw in a very entertaining bout with Marquez, who at the time was one of the best boxers in the World. Same say he won and some say he lost. Either way, a draw was a good result. And he got a win over Fahsan.

 

DeMarcus Corely's wins as WBO champion came against Felix Flores, Ener Julio and Randall Bailey before he lost to Zab Judah.

 

Can you name a single of Flores, Julio and Bailey's opponents without looking? I can't!

 

I agree with anyone who wants to say Floyd can have that year as it's a pick em year. But, personally, i think knocking Marquez down 3 times and getting a draw as well as a minor win over Fahsan was more impressive than Floyd's solitary win over Corley.

 

- In my post where did i say anything about Floyd should've fought Judah at 140? I don't make any claim like that at all.

 

The only side note i wrote was that Floyd fought Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell instead of fighting the guy who beat both of them (Kostya Tszyu). And when Hatton beat Tszyu at 140 in the same month that Floyd beat Gatti, Floyd could've unified the division.

 

And i will add this: It is my opinion, that Floyd wasn't aware of Hatton enough to know how good he actually was. Hatton wasn't anywhere near a superstar outside of the UK at this time. So Floyd kept a close eye on the situation. He soon learnt that Hatton was a one dimensional slugger and not particularly skilful. He then decided to have the fight a 2 years later.

 

- As for my "well balanced views", i have other "well balanced views" which have manifested themselves on threads about my respect for Carl Froch, discontent for David Haye and his loud mouth antics, criteria for entrance into the Hall of fame, the best British fighters from yesteryear....

 

I don't think my views all revolve around Floyd and Pacquiao.

[McBride]

You can check back issues of Boxing News, you can read Billy Graham and Hatton both saying they didn't want Mayweather at the time he challenged Ricky saying perhaps 18 months to 2 years later. This was at the time Mayweather announced his intention to move up to 140.

 

I've said before and i'll say again i'm not intersted in what boxers say they are or aren't gonna do, and anyone who brings up a fighters quote as a valid point in a discussion is not worthy of a reply.

 

I'd like a pound for everytime a fighter has said he's going to do this that or the other, and done fuck all like it, and i mean dozens of fighters not just one or two.

[grapevine241]

 

disregard the title, but this is a little explanation by floyd from 06 before the judah fight

[londoner]

You can check back issues of Boxing News, you can read Billy Graham and Hatton both saying they didn't want Mayweather at the time he challenged Ricky saying perhaps 18 months to 2 years later.

 

And i don't deny that at all. I'm merely saying Hatton has never been a skilful fighter (he was never a favourite of mine) and i've always considered him to be a bit of a poor man's Micky Ward: A brawler with a fierce body attack who was able to win a World title (unlike Ward). But, who hugged too much to make any bouts truly exciting (Ward was never a "hugger" and hence why i preferred Ward).

 

So taking into account Hatton's lack of skill and bad performance against Collazo in his only fight at 147lbs prior to the Mayweather Jr bout, i think it was apparent for all that Hatton would have 0% chance of beating Mayweather Jr at 147lbs.

 

The other thing i wrote above was that i believe Floyd didn't have a clue who Hatton was (as i guess most Americans didn't either) and was biding his time. "Let's have a look at this Ricky Hatton dude. See what he's made of". He had a look at him for 18 months and then realised he was just a glorified brawler and thought "piece of cake" and so decided to take the fight.

 

As the old saying goes: "Don't start a fight with someone you don't know" (he could know Ninjutsu!).

[gavpowell]

i've always considered him to be a bit of a poor man's Micky Ward: A brawler with a fierce body attack who was able to win a World title (unlike Ward). But, who hugged too much to make any bouts truly exciting (Ward was never a "hugger" and hence why i preferred Ward).

 

How on Earth was Hatton a poor man's Mickey Ward? Ward was a journeyman, while Hatton was a 4-time amateur national champion and a three-time world champion across two weight classes. Htton's grabbing style only really casme late in his career - before that he was something of a human windmill who would sometimes clinch to get inside.

[londoner]

i've always considered him to be a bit of a poor man's Micky Ward: A brawler with a fierce body attack who was able to win a World title (unlike Ward). But, who hugged too much to make any bouts truly exciting (Ward was never a "hugger" and hence why i preferred Ward).

 

How on Earth was Hatton a poor man's Mickey Ward? Ward was a journeyman, while Hatton was a 4-time amateur national champion and a three-time world champion across two weight classes. Htton's grabbing style only really casme late in his career - before that he was something of a human windmill who would sometimes clinch to get inside.

 

I have watched about the same amount of Ward and Hatton bouts. I only ever enjoyed one Hatton display: His win over Tszyu. All of his other wins were too "huggy".

 

Whereas i can't say i've ever watched a Ward bout that i didn't enjoy.

 

I'm referring to Hatton being a "poor man's Ward" on styles alone. Hatton was never involved in a fight of the year: Ward was in 3. People must've found Ward's bouts to be very entertaining.

 

Hatton did become a World champion numerous times and i've always said i respected his willingness to fight the best (Tszyu, Floyd, Pacquiao) and travel to fight them. But, i never enjoyed watching any of his bouts.

[McBride]

And I have also said that plenty of people thought that Hatton could beat Mayweather ( including me) based on the way JLC troubled him in their first fight by getting close and applying pressure. With the benefit of hindsight we now know that Haton would never have beaten him in a hundered years because we saw with our own eyes that Mayweather was on a different planet than Ricky. That was nothing to do with 147, Mayweather started out as a S / Feather ffs. Its the same stupid excuse the Mayweather haters make for the Marquez fight. It had nothing to do with size, and everything to do with class and skill.

 

Hatoon and Marquez just couldn't hit Mayweather as often as they could hit everyone else they fought. No excuses, about their weight, or his. Mayweather would have shut out Marquez no matter what weight they fought at, and would probably have stopped Hatton at a lower weight too.

[brooklynbrawler]

And I have also said that plenty of people thought that Hatton could beat Mayweather ( including me) based on the way JLC troubled him in their first fight by getting close and applying pressure. With the benefit of hindsight we now know that Haton would never have beaten him in a hundered years because we saw with our own eyes that Mayweather was on a different planet than Ricky. That was nothing to do with 147, Mayweather started out as a S / Feather ffs. Its the same stupid excuse the Mayweather haters make for the Marquez fight. It had nothing to do with size, and everything to do with class and skill.

 

Hatoon and Marquez just couldn't hit Mayweather as often as they could hit everyone else they fought. No excuses, about their weight, or his. Mayweather would have shut out Marquez no matter what weight they fought at, and would probably have stopped Hatton at a lower weight too.

 

Personally I would put it down to a combination of the weight and Joe Cortez being in charge, for the eventual outcome and the "lopsidedness" of the bout.

Cortex broke every single bit of in-fighting up, which was Hatton's only real offence.

He never hit Mayweather as much, simply because Cortez never allowed him to. Not Floyd.

I'm not saying Ricky would have beaten him at any weight, but I don't think Floyd would have knocked him out at 140 lbs, and with a ref who wasn't completely clueless and inept, and the bout would have been much closer.

You only have to look to the N'Dou vs Malignaggi bouts to see the difference a decent ref makes to "in-fighters."

[McBride]

Take up your debate with londoner BB he calls it hugging. lmao

 

As far as the fight with Mayweather goes, i am quite happy with what i saw which was Mayweather more than willing to rough it up with the glove in the face forcing Ricky's head back, kidney punches, anything you like in fact, with or without Cortez. After the 4th round it became quite clear Hatton was out of his depth, he was getting hit at will, and could do nothing about it, whilst his own shots were not getting anywhere.

[grapevine241]

there could have been no referee in the ring and it wouldnt have made a difference, hatton couldnt do a thing against floyd. tbh, if floyd wasnt so cautious he could have stopped hatton well before he did.