dulais_valley Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Who do you blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulais_valley Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'd be interested to see the boards' views on this. I, now, lay the blame at the feet of Wlad and co. I don't buy into the "need" to fight Chisora. Wlad doesn't actually have to fight three times in a year, he could easilly fight Haye in July and then fight again in October or November. Of course, he doesn't have to do this but it is the fight that everyone wants and the most legitimate fight so he should be bending over backwards to make it. It seems to me that Haye and co have actually ceded to a lot of demands (purse split, tv coverage, venue) so it wouldn't kill Wlad to budge a little. Pretty sick of the KBros bossing the division so nonchalantly. The stories coming out of the Solis camp and from past fighters or fights that have fallen through seem to back this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelchair Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The truth is, we will never know. Haye and his team will blame Wlad, who in turn will blame Haye. Personally I'm sick of the whole saga, I like to see fighters just get on and fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabandmove Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I voted for both. This fight hasn't happened in the past because the pair of them were being stupid about the demands. For this latest breakdown I blame Wlad but I think that is partly to do with Haye in the past not budging at the negotiating table. Haye now seems like he really does want to get this fight on, I guess he is going to stick to his word about retiring so wants to get them in the ring now before it is too late. I think I read a post from Gav saying K2 could potentially just be freezing Haye out after all his antics over the past couple of years, it could look like that from the outside but it definitely seems like Wlad is the cause this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sky and Amir Khan >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulais_valley Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Come now Iam! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulks Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 If anyone truly believes Sky have knocked back a Haye (proven PPV seller) Wlad fight (Heavyweight championship of the world) for a Khan v ????? fight with no location decided then they are mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think there are varying factors but after reading everything - I'm blaming Wlad this time. The 1st time they were meant to fight was obviously Haye. This time we have Boente blaming the Khan fight while Wlad is blaming the Royal Wedding. (Which is a day before, not PPV and will be mainly shown on the BBC not Sky) It seems that the fight was going to get made and Wlad kept asking for more - German doctor then he would only fight in Germany then other stuff. Haye agreed to all and at the last minute of the last hour Wlad decides to fight for Peanuts against 14-0 novice Del Chisora. I also blame Sky for messing about with dates. This fight is a much bigger fight than Amir Khan vs TBA. Talk is of Khan fighting Petersen, should a Heavyweight title fight of this magnitude be making way for Khan vs Petersen - No f'in way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faulks Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I voted for both. Im sick of the pair of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Walker Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Understanding that Haye has played some transparent games in the past it wouldn't shock me if Wlad were the culprit this time and actively toying with Haye. You alll need to remember that Haye originally was lobbying for a title shot he didn't merit and when he got it he took off. Wash rinse and repeat awhile later with Vitali. Then he beats the weakest of the champs and suddenly it's Wlad that needs to "legitimize" himself? I'm not that stupid and neither are most people. Spin is spin and to my way of thinking Haye could be an agent for Maytag the way he's been jerking Klitschko's and fans around. Now if you like Haye and buy into his spin cycles, maybe you might want to put your imagination to the test and come up with justification - on ALL of Haye's numerous flawed points - but the fact remains Haye was the last one in the championship door and he's done nothing to date to forward the division or his job turning back legitimate contenders. Having said all of that, I personally like Haye, am a fan and am now outright snickering at the soap opera this heavyweight round robin has become. Just don't ask me to become emotionally involved with it or believe any of it. There is other equally or more serious match-ups to be made and work to be done (thank-you Bradley/Alexander) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ko Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Sure did duck that Chagaev bloke and that Povetkin fella.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Sure did duck that Chagaev bloke and that Povetkin fella.... and that Sam Peter bloke. And of course Ray Austin, Calvin Brock, Monte Barrett. Not that Monte Barrett was ever all that good, but y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Sure did duck that Chagaev bloke and that Povetkin fella.... and that Sam Peter bloke. And of course Ray Austin, Calvin Brock, Monte Barrett. Not that Monte Barrett was ever all that good, but y'know. Sultan Ibragimov was another "better" fighter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Sure did duck that Chagaev bloke and that Povetkin fella.... No Golota, Tua, Grant, Mercer and Rahman (when they could still fight), Maskaev, Valuev off the top of my head. People give Larry Holmes a hard time for missing fights. Lets not forget that the best fighter Wlad has beaten in his reign is either Eddie Chambers or Calvin Brock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mercer when he could fight would be at the very beginning of Wlad's career wouldn't he? So would he have even been interested in facing some big hard-hitting technically clever boxer when there was nothing to gain? Can't comment on most of the others, as the 80s and 90s heavyweights are mostly a blank for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mercer when he could fight would be at the very beginning of Wlad's career wouldn't he? So would he have even been interested in facing some big hard-hitting technically clever boxer when there was nothing to gain? Can't comment on most of the others, as the 80s and 90s heavyweights are mostly a blank for me. Mercer started fighting before any of the names I mentioned and he still ended up being a Wlad title defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, key word being defence - by that stage Wlad had a title so there was something in it for Mercer(no idea what state Mercer was in by then as I'm not sure I've seen the fight or any Mercer fights. I get him confused with McCall a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Sure did duck that Chagaev bloke and that Povetkin fella.... No Golota, Tua, Grant, Mercer and Rahman (when they could still fight), Maskaev, Valuev off the top of my head. People give Larry Holmes a hard time for missing fights. Lets not forget that the best fighter Wlad has beaten in his reign is either Eddie Chambers or Calvin Brock. Lets look at this reasonably: Wlad first won his world title in 2000 6 days later Golota fought Tyson then went missing for 3 years. When was that fight supposed to have taken place Rob? Between Grant castrating Bowe or before Grant stopped him? Tua as we all know only got 1 world title fight, that was a month after Wlad first won a world title. By the time Wlad had recovered from the Brewster and Sanders losses and won another title Tua was facing the likes of Maurice Wheeler...so again, when were they supposed to face off? Before Wlad had become champion? After Tua last to Byrd? Grant...when was he good? Before Wlad had a title? After he had broken his ankle? After Guinn had beaten him? Again when should this fight have taken place? Mercer again would have required some illogical time Rahman was good...erm..when? Again he kept losing, and was at his prime when exactly? Maskaev was meant to face Vitali (pre injury), though saying Wlad avoided him is relatively backward. Oleg was too busy fighting the likes of Craig Tomlinson and Julius Francis, or Peter Okhello. When was Oleg that good anyway? Valuev I'm just ignoring anyway. He was never any cop....oh sod it, you've got me here...when was this fight supposed to happen? When Valuev was humping Ruiz? When he was getting a controversial win over Donald?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Haye's fault first fight. But this time its Wlad, I dunno if its mind games just to spite Haye. I think both need this fight but Haye does need it before October and Klitschko are messing him around. I think Wlad is stepping aside and sneaking a fight with Haye to Vitali. It is something Wlad does. Ducks the better fighters and leaves them to tougher brother Vitali. Sure did duck that Chagaev bloke and that Povetkin fella.... No Golota, Tua, Grant, Mercer and Rahman (when they could still fight), Maskaev, Valuev off the top of my head. People give Larry Holmes a hard time for missing fights. Lets not forget that the best fighter Wlad has beaten in his reign is either Eddie Chambers or Calvin Brock. Lets look at this reasonably: Wlad first won his world title in 2000 6 days later Golota fought Tyson then went missing for 3 years. When was that fight supposed to have taken place Rob? Between Grant castrating Bowe or before Grant stopped him? Tua as we all know only got 1 world title fight, that was a month after Wlad first won a world title. By the time Wlad had recovered from the Brewster and Sanders losses and won another title Tua was facing the likes of Maurice Wheeler...so again, when were they supposed to face off? Before Wlad had become champion? After Tua last to Byrd? Grant...when was he good? Before Wlad had a title? After he had broken his ankle? After Guinn had beaten him? Again when should this fight have taken place? Mercer again would have required some illogical time Rahman was good...erm..when? Again he kept losing, and was at his prime when exactly? Maskaev was meant to face Vitali (pre injury), though saying Wlad avoided him is relatively backward. Oleg was too busy fighting the likes of Craig Tomlinson and Julius Francis, or Peter Okhello. When was Oleg that good anyway? Valuev I'm just ignoring anyway. He was never any cop....oh sod it, you've got me here...when was this fight supposed to happen? When Valuev was humping Ruiz? When he was getting a controversial win over Donald?... Glad you found another name Ruiz also no Holyfield fight. Another 2 names. I'm sorry Scott but one minute your not familiar with these fighters and the next you've Boxrec'd. Boxrec is handy but not the be all and end all. You discount Rahman and Mercer as not being any good or available, so how come they were when washed up? People tend to forget that it was Wlad that was heading to the top before Vitali, so at the time he was linked with the other fighters like Tua, Grant etc. Also Shannon Briggs another that he never fought. Grant was viewed in the US as the next top Heavyweight and the man that would succeed Lennox. Tua had constantly fought anyone who would get in the ring with him - Maskaev, Lennox, Ruiz, Ibeabuchi and Rahman to name a few. Maskaev and Golota were logical fights to make. Some fights don't happen cos someone loses etc but when you start stacking the names up as people do for Larry Holmes then you have to wonder why. This list is getting long now. Also all of the names mentioned were good fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skav Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My thoughts are summed up in my article here about the fight: http://www.twodice.tv/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=427:klitschko-vs-haye-falls-through-wladimir-to-fight-chisora-in-april&Itemid=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm sorry Scott but one minute your not familiar with these fighters and the next you've Boxrec'd. Boxrec is handy but not the be all and end all. I was the one who said I wasn't familiar with them, not him. Holyfield's been done for ages, Ruiz was never allowed near anyone dangerous and boxrec, while not necessarily telling the whole story, gives a fairly useful idea of where fighters were in their careers at that time. It's also worth noting that the Klitschkos were promoted by Sauerland for a long time, before they went self-managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulais_valley Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 It doesn't matter who he did or didn't fight. They were all utter shite. Haye isn't as bad as any of them and he's ducking him to fight Chisora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm sorry Scott but one minute your not familiar with these fighters and the next you've Boxrec'd. Boxrec is handy but not the be all and end all. I was the one who said I wasn't familiar with them, not him. Holyfield's been done for ages, Ruiz was never allowed near anyone dangerous and boxrec, while not necessarily telling the whole story, gives a fairly useful idea of where fighters were in their careers at that time. It's also worth noting that the Klitschkos were promoted by Sauerland for a long time, before they went self-managed. My apologises to Scott as it was you who hadn't seen these guys including Mercer? Didn't you see him fight Lennox or Tommy Morrison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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