The_budweiser Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Whenever a fighter travels to Germany the general consensus seems to dictate that if he does not knock the home fighter out then he will get “jobbed” on the cards. This may have been the case in recent years and I can remember some shockers, like Lolenga Mock totally outboxing Kai Kurzawa for 10 rounds before losing on all three cards, or Robin Reid getting reprimanded by referee Roger Tilleman for literally landing a punch on one of the most protected German species ever – Sven Ottke. However, I don’t view Germany as quite representing the no-go area it once was perceived to be. Indeed, some questionable decisions on British shores make me wonder whether the problem is more widespread. Page not found - - Boxing News - Ring News24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repsac Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? I think you need to factor in the crowd noise when evaluating the scoring of a fight in someone home country. Even though that say it shouldn't be a factor, i highly doubt it doesn't affect the judges. Every punch that barely lands, there's a reaction from the crowd. In a close that, that could be just enough to determine the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selij Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Probably too much scrutiny and too many eyes on this one Bud due to the world TV coverage for any mallarkey. Although you're correct there was a fight a couple of months back here when Steve Grey, Howard Foster and co awarded a fight to a new blue-eyed boy when he clearly lost (fight escapes me for now, will do a little research on it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cableaddict Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Probably too much scrutiny and too many eyes on this one Bud due to the world TV coverage for any mallarkey. Although you're correct there was a fight a couple of months back here when Steve Grey, Howard Foster and co awarded a fight to a new blue-eyed boy when he clearly lost (fight escapes me for now, will do a little research on it). I agree in this case, despite my (correctly) seeing corruption pretty much everywhere. There hasn't too much need so far for judges so far, in the Super Series, but the decisions that HAVE happened have seemed remarkably accurate. - Accurate despite lots of crowd noise for missed shots, and even bad commentating. (I remember actually commenting about this to myself, especially after Briedas - Perez.) I think the people behind this series have probably gone to great lengths to make sure they don't get embarrassed by any of the cards. Edited February 13, 2018 by Cableaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selij Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Going slightly off-topic the saving grace in all of this is that we will see two fights we never would have in a million years: Eub Jr vs Groves + Winner (of Eub Jr/Groves) vs Callum Smith None of them had any intention of fighting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittbox Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Whenever a fighter travels to Germany the general consensus seems to dictate that if he does not knock the home fighter out then he will get “jobbed” on the cards. This may have been the case in recent years and I can remember some shockers, like Lolenga Mock totally outboxing Kai Kurzawa for 10 rounds before losing on all three cards, or Robin Reid getting reprimanded by referee Roger Tilleman for literally landing a punch on one of the most protected German species ever – Sven Ottke. However, I don’t view Germany as quite representing the no-go area it once was perceived to be. Indeed, some questionable decisions on British shores make me wonder whether the problem is more widespread. Page not found - - Boxing News - Ring News24 Questionable decisions go on in Germany, but it's mostly about smaller fights. I don't think they'll cheat Smith out of the decision because German boxing is not as powerful as it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoztheMadman Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Germans have amended this previously-shamelessly biased way of judging, in recent years. It was first apparent when Geale got the decision over Sturm in 2012. Since then there have been several other cases where the foreign fighter got the decision justly over a home fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoztheMadman Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Germans have amended this previously shamelessly-biased way of judging, in recent years. It was first apparent when Geale got the decision over Sturm in 2012. Since then there have been several other cases where the foreign fighter got the decision justly over a home fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robprosser Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Yeah, 5 years ago I'd have said yes but they're pretty fair in the big fights these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittbox Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Germans have amended this previously shamelessly-biased way of judging, in recent years. It was first apparent when Geale got the decision over Sturm in 2012. Since then there have been several other cases where the foreign fighter got the decision justly over a home fighter. Sturm didn't enjoy a lot of suspicious help from the judges, especially in latter parts of his career, but the verdict in the rematch against Chudinov was tasteless. As for the judging, I think the situation is better globally. For example, I don't think anyone has been robbed in a big fight in the UK since the Burns v Beltran fight? But I still don't trust Sauerland. There were some robberies in the recent years like Koelling v Liebenberg I or Feigenbutz v De Carolis I. Still, I don't think Smith has to worry. It's the question of power. Sauerland has only a one guy with the belt (Tyron Zeuge) and doesn't have a big TV contract. WBSS is the last attempt of trying to be important in the boxing world and UK basically runs the market in the SMW division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? It won't go to the scorecards this one, so the point isn't an issue. I think Germany's shady past has certainly cleared up, and we have had some equally as bad scoring / gifts in the UK over the years also on some smaller cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoztheMadman Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Sturm didn't enjoy a lot of suspicious help from the judges, especially in latter parts of his career, but the verdict in the rematch against Chudinov was tasteless. As for the judging, I think the situation is better globally. For example, I don't think anyone has been robbed in a big fight in the UK since the Burns v Beltran fight? But I still don't trust Sauerland. There were some robberies in the recent years like Koelling v Liebenberg I or Feigenbutz v De Carolis I. Still, I don't think Smith has to worry. It's the question of power. Sauerland has only a one guy with the belt (Tyron Zeuge) and doesn't have a big TV contract. WBSS is the last attempt of trying to be important in the boxing world and UK basically runs the market in the SMW division. Not in UK but in US, yes. I know for instance Allakhverdiev got robbed vs Jessie Vargas and that ruined his career. He was out of the ring for 18 months and then got stopped by Broner. Sad...he looked so promising and exciting. And also, let's not forget all the gifts Paul Williams has got and not least Canelo. Kovalev also got robbed against Ward, even tho that may have not been the biggest robbery but it was one of the biggest fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittbox Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Not in UK but in US, yes. I know for instance Allakhverdiev got robbed vs Jessie Vargas and that ruined his career. He was out of the ring for 18 months and then got stopped by Broner. Sad...he looked so promising and exciting. And also, let's not forget all the gifts Paul Williams has got and not least Canelo. Kovalev also got robbed against Ward, even tho that may have not been the biggest robbery but it was one of the biggest fights. The best summary of judging in USA is when I hear Harold Lederman before the decision Dave Moretti (or insert any other "veteran" judge) judged like 500 fights. I think he's going to do a good job. Yeah, he was involved in some very questionable decisions, but I think he's among the best we have. And you know Jim, this other judge from the 3rd world country has never worked in any big fight. I wonder what the comissions are doing. We should have the best judges in the biggest fights. Frankly, I think judges like Moretti should be judging such fights, not some unexperienced guys we know nothing about. And it turns out that the unexprienced guy has the same score as Ledeman and Moretti has it 9-3 the other way around :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonRingRules Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? --- I suspect I know the answer, but since I disagree with Boz about Paul Williams and Canelo, and since scoring in boxing is one of the weakest links in the sport, I'd be happy for Boz to enlighten us as to "gifts" that they got with specifics. The only "controversy" I see in their careers is the fact that at times they can't live up to fans' expectations over their fights and their opponent selections. No fighter has ever been immune to that constant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cableaddict Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? ### SPOILERS BELOW ##### Well, we just saw Eubank Jr get robbed in England. (A close fight, but the cards were absurd, as were the official stats, as was the commentary.) So the blueprint has been laid down. However, the obvious reason Groves was given his gift tonight was so they could have a "make the British fans lose their fricking minds" series final between Groves and Smith. I think if Braehmer managed to KO Smith, he'd still officially lose the fight, somehow. Edited February 18, 2018 by Cableaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_budweiser Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Well, we just saw Eubank Jr get robbed in England. (A close fight, but the cards were absurd, as were the official stats, as was the commentary.) So the blueprint has been laid down. However, the obvious reason Groves was given his gift tonight was so they could have a "make the British fans lose their fricking minds" series final between Groves and Smith. I think if Braehmer managed to KO Smith, he'd still officially lose the fight, somehow. Cable don't spoil the fight for others. Added spoiler tag to the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cableaddict Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Cable don't spoil the fight for others. Added spoiler tag to the title. Good point. I'm just angry & not thinkin' clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layton Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Good point. I'm just angry & not thinkin' clearly. what fight was you watching Cable? Groves handled Eubank easy by a few rds, you loose a bet or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cableaddict Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? what fight was you watching Cable? Groves handled Eubank easy by a few rds, you loose a bet or something? Everyone has gone crazy except me. Seriously. You guys gotta' stop listening to the commentators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pittbox Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? [spoilerS FROM EUBANK-GROVES] As it was said that officiating in Germany got better, yesterday we had a Sauerland event with Feigenbutz v Liebenber as the main event. The fight ended with a very questionable stoppage by the ref. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o3rtwcV5P4 Here we see how the ref stops it just a moment after Liebenberg had some good moments coming forward. He wasn't hurt by antything, instead he stopped it on the basis of a cut. He didn't even consult with a doctor and the blood wasn't spilling down his eyes or anything. Edited February 18, 2018 by pittbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cableaddict Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? [spoilerS FROM EUBANK-GROVES] Terrible. ===================== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? Well, we just saw Eubank Jr get robbed in England. (A close fight, but the cards were absurd, as were the official stats, as was the commentary.) So now it was a close fight? Earlier you said Groves wasn't doing anything after the first 3 or 4 rounds, yet somehow it was close? It can hardly be a robbery if it was a close fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? what fight was you watching Cable? Groves handled Eubank easy by a few rds, you loose a bet or something? Everyone has gone crazy except me. Seriously. You guys gotta' stop listening to the commentators. :haha: Classic Cable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSMFC64 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? [spoilerS FROM EUBANK-GROVES] Just reading on Tweeter to Juergen has pulled out of the fight as he has a cold- Juergen Braehmer withdraws from WBSS semi-final, new opponent for Callum Smith | World Boxing News http://www.boxingscene.com/callum-smith-vs-nieky-holzken-play-wbss-clash--125464?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Edited February 20, 2018 by WSMFC64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ton Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Re: Does Callum Smith need a KO in Germany? [spoilerS FROM EUBANK-GROVES] Shame, the WBSS has been flawless so far but it was only a matter of time before there would be some hiccup. Braehmer is being replaced by undefeated Dutchman Nieky Holzken Never heard of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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