Who is the greater boxer before 25, after 25Pac or Floyd?

[fightfan]

Who is the greater fighter before 25, Pac or Floyd? after 25

[davemurphy]

Floyd before 25, when he had what IMO are still his most impressive wins, and even though several of Pac's biggest wins after 25 have been over Floyd's scraps, I'd give Pacquaio the edge there since Floyd's fought so infrequently.

[grapevine241]

floyd beat corrales and hernandez before 25. manny beat barrera and ledwaba before 25. pretty close, but ill give it to manny because of MAB. after 25, again its close, id probably give it to manny.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Before 25:

Mayweather 27-0, had won the WBC super featherweight title, made 7 defences, wins over G. Hernandez, Manfredy, Corrales, C. Hernandez, Chavez

Pacquiao 38-2-1, had won WBC flyweight title and IBF super bantamweight title, made 1 Flyweight defence and 4 super bantamweight defences (including a TD), wins over Sasakul, Ledwaba, Barrera

 

Winner: Mayweather

 

After 25:

Mayweather 14-0, has won WBC Lightweight, Light Welterweight, (IBF + WBC) Welterweight and (WBC) Light Middleweight, 3 Lightweight defenses, 2 Welterweight defences, wins over Castillo (twice), Gatti, Judah, De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley

Pacquiao 15-1-1, has won WBC Super Featherweight, Lightweight, (WBO) Welterweight, (WBC) Light Middleweight, 2 Welterweight defences, wins over Morales (twice), Solis, Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, Mosley

 

Winner: Pacquiao by a smidge due to the Cotto and Margarito wins IMO

[McBride]

 

Winner: Pacquiao by a smidge due to the Catchweight wins IMO

 

Hmmmm.

[RAZZ-MCFC]

 

Winner: Pacquiao by a smidge due to the Catchweight wins IMO

 

Hmmmm.

 

mlol/

[iamasadlittleboy]

Beating the 2 guys Mayweather is criticised for not facing...and actually fighting 1 of them at a weight higher than Mayweather would have..

hmmm...

[littleman370]

Beating the 2 guys Mayweather is criticised for not facing...and actually fighting 1 of them at a weight higher than Mayweather would have..

hmmm...

 

you can't actually be putting stock in the margarito win!?!? margs didn't have an easy time with roberto garcia in his only fight since getting KTFO by shane mosley! roberto garica!

the cotto win is altogether debatable, and frankly i forget whatever i might have thought about it, so i don't mind that. but, wow, i thought no one (outside the philipines) gave manny much credit for the margs win

[gavpowell]

I didn't, but then the only wins I give him credit for since Barrera are Hatton and Clottey, given Cotto seemed very ropey in his fight with Clottey and was apparently struggling with weight issues(plus the silly catchweight of course)

[McBride]

Beating the 2 guys Mayweather is criticised for not facing...and actually fighting 1 of them at a weight higher than Mayweather would have..

hmmm...

 

That might be a credible argument if the people who criticise Mayweather for not fighting Cotto weren't too stupid to accept Mayweather and his team challenged Cotto at 140, and Arum refused to allow it.

 

Margarito is as big a joke as Baldomir, and deserves to be treated with the same contempt. Any fighter with even a modicum of skill deserves no credit whatsoever for beating either of them or indeed Clottey.

 

Also it might help if you got your facts right. Mayweather did NOT demand DLH came down to 150 for a 154 title fight, he was quite happy to cede 4lbs, so where you got your nonsense about " at a weight higher than Mayweather would have " can be nothing more than conjecture.

[gavpowell]

 

Also it might help if you got your facts right. Mayweather did NOT demand DLH came down to 150 for a 154 title fight, he was quite happy to cede 4lbs, so where you got your nonsense about " at a weight higher than Mayweather would have " can be nothing more than conjecture.

 

He's talking about Cotto, who was always at least a welter and clearly killing himself at 140 by the end of his time there. Even if Mayweather offered Cotto a fight at 140, Cotto is clearly healthier at 147 and that's the weight Pacquiao beat him at, even taking the catchweight into account.

 

Mayweather has conspicuously failed to challenge Margarito or Cotto in all their collective time at 147, and those are the two he gets criticised most for.

[McBride]

Again it is conjecture. Who can say that Mayweather will not still take an easy payday and challenge either Cotto or Margarito at 154? IF it happens what can be stated with certainty, is Mayweather will not demand they weigh less than the limit, due to the fact he has no antecedents for doing so.

 

You also know very well Pakow did not fight Cotto at 147, he fought him at 145, there is a difference, despite the excuse mongers, otherwise he wouldn't have demanded it.

[gavpowell]

There is a difference, but it's still strictly speaking withibn the bounds of welterweight, which is anywhwere between 140 and 147. I don;'t think it should have been for a title unless they could weigh up to 147 mind you.

 

Mayweather, or anyone, facing Cotto now is too late - Cotto looks shopworn and must have a maximum of 3 real fights left in him. Same for Margarito, though Margarito never particularly impressed me in the first place.

 

I suppose if Cotto looks rejuvenated and Mayqweather goes up and beats him that'd be ok, but it's still ridiculous that Floyd has done so little at welterweight when he could have had the division sewn up a long time ago.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Beating the 2 guys Mayweather is criticised for not facing...and actually fighting 1 of them at a weight higher than Mayweather would have..

hmmm...

 

That might be a credible argument if the people who criticise Mayweather for not fighting Cotto weren't too stupid to accept Mayweather and his team challenged Cotto at 140, and Arum refused to allow it.

 

Margarito is as big a joke as Baldomir, and deserves to be treated with the same contempt. Any fighter with even a modicum of skill deserves no credit whatsoever for beating either of them or indeed Clottey.

 

Also it might help if you got your facts right. Mayweather did NOT demand DLH came down to 150 for a 154 title fight, he was quite happy to cede 4lbs, so where you got your nonsense about " at a weight higher than Mayweather would have " can be nothing more than conjecture.

 

So Mayweather is allowed to fight a drained skeletal Cotto at 140 but Pacquiao fighting him at 145 is terrible? As early as the Torres fight you could see Cotto was looking drained at 140.

 

I don't think I ever said De La Hoya was put on a catch weight, Magarito v Floyd would have taken place at Welterweight, not 150/Light Middleweight. I give credit for the Margarito win as it was an impressive win against a guy who was aggressive and had the power to hurt Pacquiao.

[McBride]

It was a terribly kept secret that Cotto was killing himself to make 140, and I have no doubt thaty Mayweather was aware of that fact, and therefore challenged him at the weight, however that is not the point. It was 2005 when Mayweather challenged, and even tried to get him to make the fight by fighting his stablemate Bruseles.

 

Miguel " chose " to keep fighting at 140 until June 2006.

 

It was 3 years and 8 fights at Welter later when Pakow demanded the 145 limit. No comparison whatsoever.

 

I just love the way Pakow fans wriggle and squirm in their attempts to compare Mayweather with thjeir boys shenannigans.

[iamasadlittleboy]

It was a terribly kept secret that Cotto was killing himself to make 140, and I have no doubt thaty Mayweather was aware of that fact, and therefore challenged him at the weight, however that is not the point. It was 2005 when Mayweather challenged, and even tried to get him to make the fight by fighting his stablemate Bruseles.

 

Miguel " chose " to keep fighting at 140 until June 2006.

 

It was 3 years and 8 fights at Welter later when Pakow demanded the 145 limit. No comparison whatsoever.

 

I just love the way Pakow fans wriggle and squirm in their attempts to compare Mayweather with thjeir boys shenannigans.

 

Like wise Miguel "chose" to sign to fight Pacquiao at a catchweight. It was his "choice" if you will, to fight at the weight, just as, like you say, it he "chose" to keep fighting at 140. 145 was also a only a lb lighter than he had been for Clottey.

[McBride]

Yep, it was his choice, just as it was his choice to DUCK Mayweather, it appears to be Pakow fans that have trouble understanding that.

 

Yet they are very quick to accuse Mayweather of DUCKING Margarito because by the time Arum threw out the challenge the whole world knew Mayweather would never work with him. Never mind that he made the guy who KO'd Margarito look foolish, or that he ridiculed one of the 2 other useless Welters, for the same money, and a more worthwhile strap.

 

Nope, according to the Pakow fanboys, Mayweather definitely ducked the plum.

 

Have they ever actually stopped to think, if Pakow can beat the Mexican, with his limitations, how easily is Mayweather gonna make him look an idiot?

[gavpowell]

I think they're about even between the two of them - Pacquiao actually did beat Margarito, and Cotto, whereas Floyd continued to ignore them. But Pacquiao had toimpose silly weiogjht restrictions on them.

 

Floyd's been at welter for what, 5 years? And he's beaten 3 proper welterweights and a light-middleweight, the rest have been natural light welters or lightweights.

 

Pacquiao has been at welter for about three years and has beaten three proper welters, a welter-cum-light-middle for an LM title, and gone down to light welter to beat the recognised ruler of that division.

 

Except two of those proper welters had weight restrictions, one was obviously shot to bits and the welter-cum-light middle was arguably shot to bits coming down from a weight where he'd been awful.

 

If Pacquiao had let Cotto weigh what he liked, I'd give Pacquiao the edge. As it is, they've both had a shabby few years.

[iamasadlittleboy]

I don't think I've mention the word duck, my words were "Beating the 2 guys Mayweather is criticised for not facing", which, believe it or not, he is criticised for. Whilst Mayweather did "choose" not to face Margarito, he also "chose" to spend many years as a Welterweight not actually fighting anyone, which again he'll be criticised for.

[McBride]

How often a fighter fights is their business, not the fans. If I got 25 million for fighting DLH, of course I'd let the bugs and earwigs fights twice a year for 5 million each. Particularly if I knew I had far more skill than any of them, and could therefore take a year or more off and still come back and win easily.

[littleman370]

How often a fighter fights is their business, not the fans. If I got 25 million for fighting DLH, of course I'd let the bugs and earwigs fights twice a year for 5 million each. Particularly if I knew I had far more skill than any of them, and could therefore take a year or more off and still come back and win easily.

 

that doesn't make it an unfair criticism, though. it's his business to fight who he likes, when he likes, and we have every right to criticize whichever choices he makes.

[McBride]

How often a fighter fights is their business, not the fans. If I got 25 million for fighting DLH, of course I'd let the bugs and earwigs fights twice a year for 5 million each. Particularly if I knew I had far more skill than any of them, and could therefore take a year or more off and still come back and win easily.

 

that doesn't make it an unfair criticism, though. it's his business to fight who he likes, when he likes, and we have every right to criticize whichever choices he makes.

 

Absolutely,

 

But please bear in mind, critics are often critics, because they cant DO, in much the same way that teachers teach, because they are not good enough to DO ( at the highest level ) what they teach, or indeed coach.

 

The best example I can give is some self important fool from college, or Uni, cricitising say the Roling Stones or Bob Dylan, based on ageism. They, or he will then embark, on a mammoth world tour generating hundreds of millions of dollars, whilst said critic, crawls back under his rock ( no pun intended ) still unable to play, or write anything musically worth more than a cup of cold urine.

 

All they have acheived is seeing their name in print for a day, whilst the established musician carries on for yet another 5 to 10 years.

 

Its much the same with sport. If an ex player writes a critique, it is worth looking at, if its anyone else, its garbage.

[littleman370]

How often a fighter fights is their business, not the fans. If I got 25 million for fighting DLH, of course I'd let the bugs and earwigs fights twice a year for 5 million each. Particularly if I knew I had far more skill than any of them, and could therefore take a year or more off and still come back and win easily.

 

that doesn't make it an unfair criticism, though. it's his business to fight who he likes, when he likes, and we have every right to criticize whichever choices he makes.

 

Absolutely,

 

But please bear in mind, critics are often critics, because they cant DO, in much the same way that teachers teach, because they are not good enough to DO ( at the highest level ) what they teach, or indeed coach.

 

The best example I can give is some self important fool from college, or Uni, cricitising say the Roling Stones or Bob Dylan, based on ageism. They, or he will then embark, on a mammoth world tour generating hundreds of millions of dollars, whilst said critic, crawls back under his rock ( no pun intended ) still unable to play, or write anything musically worth more than a cup of cold urine.

 

All they have acheived is seeing their name in print for a day, whilst the established musician carries on for yet another 5 to 10 years.

 

Its much the same with sport. If an ex player writes a critique, it is worth looking at, if its anyone else, its garbage.

 

i disagree, i think we can criticize and they are not always junk. greats of boxing writing like liebling and schulberg never really laced them up, but still are awesome to read. while i know i'm not in their class and i've (literally) only boxed in my dreams, i have no qualms about criticizing a fighter for his in ring actions.

mosley fought pacquiao to not get knocked out. he did not fight with the same heart and courage he fought DLH amongst others. he fought a rather cowardly fight.

i have no issue saying that, despite not being in the ring, and i daresay a fair few folks agree. you should be careful who your fights are with. fellows like dan rafael probably don't know much about the technical side of boxing (despite his reporting ability and business understanding) whereas steve farhood and al bernstein seem to have a very good understanding of the technical side, and i don't believe they are ex fighters

[McBride]

I'd say the above is a perfect example of what I was getting at.

 

To expect a 39 year old guy to fight with the same tenacity, and commitment to aggression as he did when he was 28, and 32 respectively, is pretty niave.

 

To imply he is cowardly for not being able to is crass.