WelshDevilRob Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Pavlik: If I'm Not Paid Respectably - I Won't Fight, Care! By Mel "Sabaka" Ohlhoft Former middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik sat down with the Youngstown Vindicator to further discuss his decision to withdraw from this weekend's fight with Darryl Cunningham, which was scheduled at the Covelli Centre in Youngstown. Pavlik left a lot of hometown fans crying foul, and his promoter Top Rank, and televison network Showtime, lost money with the withdrawal. Pavlik was not happy with the money he was offered for the fight. He was set to make $50,000 for the Cunningham, which is $200,000 less than what he made for his May comeback fight against Alfonso Lopez. That wasn't all. He wasn't happy with the money being offered for a planned November clash with IBF super middleweight champion Lucian Bute. Pavlik felt the offer of $1.35 million to face Bute in Canada was below his standard of payment. “The only thing I feel bad about is how it went down. I feel bad that it was a week out. But I had to make a decision. I had to put my foot down. Hopefully the message got through, and if it didn’t, oh well. I won’t fight no more. I didn’t want to cancel the fight, and I feel bad for the people in Youngstown, but everybody stands to get their money back. I’m the only one who stands to lose money,” Pavlik said. "If I lost the fight to Lopez, OK, I understand that [amount]. But I didn’t lose. I won. I’m not trying to be a cocky person, but the name Kelly Pavlik still carries a lot of weight. No matter what I do, Kelly Pavlik can still draw. If I’m not paid respectably, I won’t fight. I won’t care. If I have to be the bad guy, oh well. I don’t have to fight anymore. I still have it; I still want to fight. But it has to be on my terms. I’m not asking for [Floyd] Mayweather money or [Manny] Pacquiao money. I’m not asking for millions upon millions. I’m just asking for my fair share.” Source: www.boxingscene.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 pavlik and his management are looking really bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Not sure on this and Pavlik has been getting a hammering. He is speaking out so its not the drink etc as some suggested. $150,000 less this time for fighting despite being at home. Ok, last fight was Vegas but I can see where he is coming from. Though the Bute pay is maybe that Bute himself isn't a big draw outside of Canada, so Kelly needs to factor that in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Not sure on this and Pavlik has been getting a hammering. He is speaking out so its not the drink etc as some suggested. $150,000 less this time for fighting despite being at home. Ok, last fight was Vegas but I can see where he is coming from. Though the Bute pay is maybe that Bute himself isn't a big draw outside of Canada, so Kelly needs to factor that in. What does Kelly want?...He's being given opportunities...and saying no, he's not a big draw outside of his homeland, he's not bringing any belts to the table and at 168 he's not bringing anything at all. Bute v Kessler would bring in Danish PPV money, a big name and a top guy at 168... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 Not sure on this and Pavlik has been getting a hammering. He is speaking out so its not the drink etc as some suggested. $150,000 less this time for fighting despite being at home. Ok, last fight was Vegas but I can see where he is coming from. Though the Bute pay is maybe that Bute himself isn't a big draw outside of Canada, so Kelly needs to factor that in. What does Kelly want?...He's being given opportunities...and saying no, he's not a big draw outside of his homeland, he's not bringing any belts to the table and at 168 he's not bringing anything at all. Bute v Kessler would bring in Danish PPV money, a big name and a top guy at 168... I see what you mean and like I said "Not sure on this". Bute ain't gonna fight Kessler. Bute is happy having easy touches. Kessler has stepped up and taken challenges a few times, Bute hasn't. Bute is a homebird. So you can talk Danish TV all you like but you need to tell it to Bute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brooklynbrawler Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 This is all that is wrong with boxing nowadays....to expect a champions salary you should be a f*cking champion! Simple as that.... I'm sick of guys who expect to turn up and earn millions for every fight, despite achieving very little of late. It's fine to try and maximise your revenue, but when it's basically a choice of x amount or nothing, and him choosing nothing, it shows him up for what he is. Looking for some dough, and lacking in the belief that he will actually win the upcoming bouts I'm sure he can't be broke already, the amount he must have won since the Taylor fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemurphy Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What does Kelly want?...He's being given opportunities...and saying no, he's not a big draw outside of his homeland, he's not bringing any belts to the table and at 168 he's not bringing anything at all. Bute v Kessler would bring in Danish PPV money, a big name and a top guy at 168... Are you kidding, Scott???? ALL of Youngstown will be watching, it's a GOLD MINE!!! Of course I'm being facetious here, Kelly Pavlik has become spoiled, and like so many before him, he and Winky Wright should face each other for a 4 rd swing bout on ESPN paycheck......turning down seven figure paydays and sitting around simply because your used to better is an insult to all the fighters who never got the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 What does Kelly want?...He's being given opportunities...and saying no, he's not a big draw outside of his homeland, he's not bringing any belts to the table and at 168 he's not bringing anything at all. Bute v Kessler would bring in Danish PPV money, a big name and a top guy at 168... Are you kidding, Scott???? ALL of Youngstown will be watching, it's a GOLD MINE!!! Of course I'm being facetious here, Kelly Pavlik has become spoiled, and like so many before him, he and Winky Wright should face each other for a 4 rd swing bout on ESPN paycheck......turning down seven figure paydays and sitting around simply because your used to better is an insult to all the fighters who never got the chance. well said goodp// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Galveston Giant Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Pavlik needs to take a step back and realise how quickly he's gone downhill these last couple of years, win a few fights to show you are serious and the money will come, surely he understands he can't demand the same money he was at the moment, maybe he is still drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleman370 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 i think kelly's problem is not so much that he overrates himself (he does) but he's making an effort to control his career more too late in the game. he's finally decided that "these guys aren't in my best interest" about two years too late. as middleweight champ he had sway, now he doesn't i hope things turn out well for him, he seems like such a nice fellow, but i can't deny that i'm skeptical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 I will always defend a fighters right to earn as much money as possible, its their livelihoods after all, however when that fighter is a former undisputed champion who is on the comeback and has already been offered a £1m+ for a title shot next I have to say that its difficult to sympathize. I think Pavlik is in the position where he doubts himself, probably thought he would struggle and put his title shot in doubt, and probably has feelers out with the likes of GBP who may have said they can offer him better money and another route to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 What's the tax-rate for the biggest earners in America? Over here you'd be taken for 40% of earnings, so I an understand why people would be a bit reticent about accepting a 'mere' million, but not sure if America is more generous than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 What's the tax-rate for the biggest earners in America? Over here you'd be taken for 40% of earnings, so I an understand why people would be a bit reticent about accepting a 'mere' million, but not sure if America is more generous than we are. for $1,350,000 the rate is 33.07% so the taxes would be $446,435 for $50,000 the rate is 14.54% so the taxes would be $7,268 i think..... that's right, someone correct me if im wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemurphy Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 What's the tax-rate for the biggest earners in America? Over here you'd be taken for 40% of earnings, so I an understand why people would be a bit reticent about accepting a 'mere' million, but not sure if America is more generous than we are. Whatever the Tax Rate, I DO know that Fighters who haven't won a major fight since Feb 2008 shouldn't be turning up their noses at a Seven Figure Payday no matter where they live, Gav crap// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Maybe, but I've never been a professional boxer or met their accountants, so for all I know out of a million-dollar purse, Pavlik could see 10 grand or something. Not a lot for risking your life - he could probably make more than that playing drinking games. Just wondered how the prize money converts to take-home pay is all, for any fighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 plus he has to pay top rank, cameron dunkin, jack loew and the rest of his team, and who knows who else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Yeah, that's what I mean - you get a million dollars. WOW! that's a lot! Only you've got to give $446,435 back immediately. Still, that's still half a million. Minus Bob's 10%(if you're lucky), training fees, management, your accountant needs paying(if he/she exists). It's not necessarily going to be a whole hunk of money left at the end. Equally though, half of that is supposition so after tax and expenses, maybe he's still left with close to half a million dollars, IN which case he's deluded if he thinks he can get more without proving himself first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleman370 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 here's a question that i can't answer but seems relevant to how much a fighter makes: does the trainer/manager/promoters fees come before taxes or after? eg, does pavlik owe arum (at 10%) $100k or 40ish k after taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Don't worry, I'm sure Arum's worked out a way for it to be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 here's a question that i can't answer but seems relevant to how much a fighter makes: does the trainer/manager/promoters fees come before taxes or after? eg, does pavlik owe arum (at 10%) $100k or 40ish k after taxes? no idea, but id assume it would be after taxes. but i think the way it works usually is that top rank would be paid (by the network, ticket sales, etc.) then they would pay pavlik who would pay the rest of the team and management Don't worry, I'm sure Arum's worked out a way for it to be both. mlol/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemurphy Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 There's NO WAY Arum works for 10%, I know Gary Shaw takes 25% and he's not half the promoter Arum is. I'm sure Top Rank takes at least that much, 10% is the standard fee you pay a Trainer. To illustrate Gav's point, lets look at a Fighter that pays 25% to his promoter, 10% to his Trainer, up to 10% for his Manager (I have no idea why fighters even have both a Manager and a Promoter, it's only because they want to have someone looking out for their interests that ISN'T the Promoter) and then you toss in your 3% for the Sanctioning Body, and we're talking up to 48%. When your the one taking the punches, it kind of sucks. If other athletes in major sports, who usually just have a Agent working at about 5% to 8%, had to work for that pct, you'd see a revolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 There's NO WAY Arum works for 10%, I know Gary Shaw takes 25% and he's not half the promoter Arum is. I'm sure Top Rank takes at least that much, 10% is the standard fee you pay a Trainer. To illustrate Gav's point, lets look at a Fighter that pays 25% to his promoter, 10% to his Trainer, up to 10% for his Manager (I have no idea why fighters even have both a Manager and a Promoter, it's only because they want to have someone looking out for their interests that ISN'T the Promoter) and then you toss in your 3% for the Sanctioning Body, and we're talking up to 48%. When your the one taking the punches, it kind of sucks. If other athletes in major sports, who usually just have a Agent working at about 5% to 8%, had to work for that pct, you'd see a revolt. And after all that you have to pay taxes. No wonder we don't get that many boxers coming through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 (I have no idea why fighters even have both a Manager and a Promoter, it's only because they want to have someone looking out for their interests that ISN'T the Promoter) I was under the impression it was illegal, mat least in America, for anyone to be both promoter and manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 (I have no idea why fighters even have both a Manager and a Promoter, it's only because they want to have someone looking out for their interests that ISN'T the Promoter) I was under the impression it was illegal, mat least in America, for anyone to be both promoter and manager. I think it is. Thats why Don King had his son Carl as the manager quite often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The idea that Don King might have heirs is terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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