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Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?


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I think there's no disputing that there's only four ways to lose the lineal status and for the purposes of this question please let's assume that we're all happy that when Fury beat Klitschko in 2015 he became the lineal heavyweight champion.

 

So here's the question.

 

Retirement is one of the four ways to lose lineal status and after Fury beat Klitschko he withdrew from the rematch obligation, relinquished the belts he had left after the IBF had stripped him and then he retired, right?

 

But then a new lineage wasn't created between then and when he came back to the sport so does that mean he just gets it back upon returning to boxing? Anyone know of any other times this happened?

 

Fury of course is telling anyone who'll listen that he's the lineal heavyweight champion, I myself to'd and fro'd over it but then settled on agreeing with him but I know some who just will not accept this claim coming from him in 2018 so just wondering what you guys think about it ahead of the December 1st showdown?

 

(PS: I have just registered and this is my first post so hello to you all I look forward to many great exchanges in the days, weeks and months ahead)

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

Welcome to the forums :thumb:

 

As I recall he retired at least once (to avoid being banned for the peds); maybe twice if you believe his twitter acct is an official line of communication even if he is off his head on powda (?) so you are correct in thinking he cant be considered the lineal champ as per the strict or literal definition. I suppose most people just apply the loose definition though that he hasnt lost his belts in the ring. Mainly Brits...

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

Hey thanks!

 

Someone cited the Ali situation but of course Ali who didn't retire or lose still lost his lineal status (which I don't agree with) but I'd have had no problem if a new lineage was created in Fury's absence since he made himself unavailable.

 

What do you think about this talk amongst Team Wilder and Team Fury that on December 1st the argument over who's the best heavyweight in the world is decided?

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

What do you think about this talk amongst Team Wilder and Team Fury that on December 1st the argument over who's the best heavyweight in the world is decided?

 

Probably correct (for me) on AJ's last performance. He looked too relaxed, disinterested and piss poor.

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

Is The Ring mag title still vacant?

 

Yup AND The Ring only have Fury at 7th (and seeing as he's only fought two cans since his 3 year lay-off that sounds about right)

 

Ratings - The Ring

 

As I said, I've kinda just accepted Fury's claims of lineal status simply for the fact that no new lineage was started between his retirement and return but how would you feel about Joshua staking the claim rather than the Fury vs Wilder winner? Since Joshua beat Klitschko I mean and Klitschko was lineal champ before he lost to Fury in a fight which immediately preceded his fight with AJ?

 

Just a thought.

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

i've no doubt that if wilder defeats him wilder will claim to be lineal champion if its AJ or whoever inflicts the 1st defeat they will also , so if its enough for them i guess i can bite that bullet as well

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

i've no doubt that if wilder defeats him wilder will claim to be lineal champion if its AJ or whoever inflicts the 1st defeat they will also , so if its enough for them i guess i can bite that bullet as well

 

Good point, Wilder already has made it clear that the lineal title is on the line on Dec 1st, actually I haven't heard one person in the boxing world (fighter or ex-fighter, trainer, promoter, etc) who has questioned the legitimacy of this claim of lineal champion by Fury so either they think it's so insignificant it's not worth arguing over or they accept it. I'm sure Wilder will be demanding a much better offer from team AJ if he gets past Fury and will use his new found lineal status as a barganing tool.

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

What does the lineal belt look like then? and who's in charge of dishing it out?? :whistle:

 

It's all bollocks really isn't it, and it's just one of the many reppercussions of having several competing governing bodies, with their own titles and belts causing this clusterfuck.

 

Who really cares about lineal at this point in time?

 

So long as the obvious best talents in each division are facing each other that's all that really matters. :thumb:

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

It's all bollocks really isn't it, and it's just one of the many reppercussions of having several competing governing bodies, with their own titles and belts causing this clusterfuck.

 

I think given all the alphabet titles knocking around the lineal title offers the most legitimate way of establishing who the champion in each weight class is. Cast your mind back to when Ali regained his boxing license, you'll remember that Frazier had the belt but the public recognised Ali as the true heavyweight champion of the world and Frazier knew that he had to fight him for legitimacy. In an era where Charles Martin and Manuel Charr can hold versions of world titles having a lineal title clears things up (especially for the casual). It's the equivalent of there being only one alphabet title which is how I'm sure we all wish it was (then you wouldn't need a seperate lineal title as by default that's what it would be already).

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

I think given all the alphabet titles knocking around the lineal title offers the most legitimate way of establishing who the champion in each weight class is. Cast your mind back to when Ali regained his boxing license, you'll remember that Frazier had the belt but the public recognised Ali as the true heavyweight champion of the world and Frazier knew that he had to fight him for legitimacy. In an era where Charles Martin and Manuel Charr can hold versions of world titles having a lineal title clears things up (especially for the casual). It's the equivalent of there being only one alphabet title which is how I'm sure we all wish it was (then you wouldn't need a seperate lineal title as by default that's what it would be already).

 

Essentially it's what "The Ring" title strived to achieve, but people don't tend to give much credence to it these days.

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

Essentially it's what "The Ring" title strived to achieve, but people don't tend to give much credence to it these days.

 

Yeah because GBP bought it, credibility kind of took a dive after that. And they've stripped Fury and for some reason Stevenson too which is baffling, this kind of nonsense puts too many doubts over their motives, like, why take it off Stevenson?

 

When you start deciding in the boardroom who should have it and who shouldn't then it's a problem since there's only meant to be two clearly defined ways of how to acquire it in the first place.

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Re: Do you consider Tyson Fury to be the lineal heavyweight champion as of today?

 

--- presumably stripped Stevie for lack of ring ranked opposition.

 

I know the general boxing public had been calling for it.

 

And that's the problem. If lineal means the man who beat the man then how can he be stripped because the public don't like who he is fighting? Once he's beaten the man we default back to the four ways of losing the lineal title (none of which include not fighting who the public want him to fight).

 

The one thing in boxing that's not meant to be based on a subjective view is the lineal title but stripping him for not fighting who your organisation thinks he should fight is the way alphabet titles are taken off fighters and so if that's how The Ring do business these days then it's no wonder no one cares who has the belt, Tyson Fury is a great example, no Ring belt but still widely accepted to be the lineal champ, he doesn't need the belt.

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