Old historian's All-Time rankings

[WelshDevilRob]

Been looking at past historian's rankings - P4P and divisional. Only found a few, so far, so please add any to this topic. It's interesting how fighters were viewed and rated. Some like Harry Greb we've not seen but people like Nat Fleischer have.

 

 

Nat Fleischer was the Ring Magazine editor-in-chief for 50 years, from 1922 until the time of his death in 1972. Here is his last list of the best fighters in each division (the original eight). Below are his rankings in 1958. Interesting reading.

Ring Magazine in 1971

Greatest Fighters of All Time

As selected by Nat Fleischer.

Heavyweights:

1 - Jack Johnson

2 - James J. Jeffries

3 - Bob Fitzsimmons

4 - Jack Dempsey

5 - James J. Corbett

6 - Joe Louis

7 - Sam Langford

8 - Gene Tunney

9 - Max Schmeling

10- Rocky Marciano

Light Heavyweights:

1 - Kid McCoy

2 - Philadelphia Jack O'Brian

3 - Jack Dillon

4 - Tommy Loughran

5 - Jack Root

6 - Battling Levensky

7 - Georges Carpentier

8 - Tom Gibbons

9 - Jack Delaney

10- Paul Berlenbach

Middleweights:

1 - Stanley Ketchell

2 - Tommy Ryan

3 - Harry Greb

4 - Mickey Walker

5 - Ray Robinson

6 - Frank Klaus

7 - Billy Papke

8 - Les Darcy

9 - Mike Gibbons

10- Jeff Smith

Welterweights:

1 - Joe Walcott

2 - Mysterious Billy Smith

3 - Jack Britton

4 - Ted Kid Lewis

5 - Dixie Kid

6 - Harry Lewis

7 - Willie Lewis

8 - Henry Armstrong

9 - Barney Ross

10- Jimmy McLarnin

Lightweights:

1 - Joe Gans

2 - Benny Leonard

3 - Owen Moran

4 - Freddy Welsh

5 - Battling Nelson

6 - George Kid Lavigne

7 - Tony Canzoneri

8 - Willie Ritchie

9 - Lew Tendler

10- Ad Wolgast

Featherweights:

1 - Terry McGovern

2 - Jim Driscoll

3 - Abe Attell

4 - Willie Pep

5 - Johnny Dundee

6 - Young Griffo

7 - Johnny Kilbane

8 - Kid Chocolate

9 - George K.O. Chaney

10- Louis Kid Kaplan

Bantamweights:

1 - George Dixon

2 - Pete Herman

3 - Kid Williams

4 - Eder Jofre

5 - Joe Lynch

6 - Bud Taylor

7 - Johnny Coulon

8 - Frankie Burns

9 - Eddie Campi

10- Panama Al Brown

Flyweight:

1 - Jimmy Wilde

2 - Pancho Villa

3 - Frankie Genaro

4 - Fidel La Barba

5 - Benny Lynch

6 - Elky Clark

7 - Johnny Buff

8 - Midget Wolgast

9 - Peter Kane

10- Pascual Perez

Greatest Fighters of All Time

As selected by Nat Fleischer in 1958

Middleweight

1. Stanley Ketchel

2. Tommy Ryan

3. Harry Greb

4. Mickey Walker

5. Sugar Ray Robinson

6. Frank Klaus

7. Billy Papke

8. Les Darcy

9. Mike Gibbons

10. Jeff Smith

Light Heavyweight

1. Kid McCoy

2. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

3. Jack Dillon

4. Tommy Loughran

5. Jack Root

6. Battling Levinsky

7. Georges Carpentier

8. Tommy Gibbons

9. Jack Delaney

10. Paul Berlenbach

Heavyweight

1. Jack Johnson

2. James J. Jeffries

3. Bob Fitzsimmons

4. Jack Dempsey

5. James J. Corbett

6. Joe Louis

7. Sam Langford

8. Gene Tunney

9. Max Schmeling

10. Rocky Marciano

[WelshDevilRob]

Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

 

Gilbert Odd was a writer for Boxing. He lived from 1902 to 1996.

Gilbert Odd (1985)

Kings of the Ring/100 Years of Heavyweight Boxing, by Gilbert Odd (pp. 151-154)

1-Muhammad Ali

2-Joe Louis

3-Jack Johnson

4-Floyd Patterson

5-Jack Dempsey

6-Jim Jeffries

7-Tommy Burns

8-Gene Tunney

9-Jim Corbett

10-Max Schmeling

11-Larry Holmes

12-Jack Sharkey

13-Jim Braddock

14-Ezzard Charles

15-Rocky Marciano

16-Joe Frazier

17-Bob Fitzsimmons

18-John L. Sullivan

19-Jersey Joe Walcott

20-Max Baer

21-Ingemar Johansson

22-Primo Carnera

23-Sonny Liston

24-Jess Willard

25-Marvin Hart

[WelshDevilRob]

Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

 

 

Bert Randolph Sugar (1936-2012)

Bert was a boxing writer from the 1960's onwards. He wrote many books and owned Boxing Illustrated and Boxing Digest.

 

Bert Sugar's top 100 of all time (2006)

 

1. Sugar Ray Robinson

2. Henry Armstrong

3. Wille Pep

4. Joe Louis

5. Harry Greb

6. Benny Leonard

7. Muhammad Ali

8. Roberto Duran

9. Jack Dempsey

10. Jack Johnson

11. Mickey Walker

12. Tony Canzoneri

13. Gene Tunney

14. Rocky Marciano

15. Joe Gans

16. Sam Langford

17. Julio Cesar Chavez

18. Jimmy Wilde

19. Stanley Ketchel

20 Barney Ross

21, Jimmy McLarnin

22. Archie Moore

23. Marcel Cerdan

24. Ezzard Charles

25. Sugar Ray Leonard

26. Joe Walcott (The original)

27. Jake LaMotta

28. Eder Jofre

29. Emile Griffith

30. Terry McGovern

31. George Foreman

32. Johnny Dundee

33. Jose Napoles

34. Pascual Perez

35. Billy Conn

36. Ruben Olivares

37. Joe Frazier

38. Tommy Loughran

39. Sandy Saddler

40. Kid Chocolate

41. Abe Attell

42. Evander Holyfield

43. George Dixon

44. Maxie Rosenbloom

45. Larry Holmes

46. Ted "Kid" Lewis

47. Marvin Hagler

48. Pernell Whitaker

49. Carlos Zarate

50. Thomas Hearns

51. Battling Nelson

52. Beau Jack

53. Ricardo Lopez

54. John L. Sullivan

55. Carlos Monzon

56. Alexis Arguello

57. Carmen Basillio

58. Pete Herman

59. Charley Burley

60. Ike Williams

61. Kid Gavilan

62. Jack Britton

63. Dick Tiger

64. Pancho Villa

65. Panama Al Brown

66. Bob Fitszimmons

67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

68. Tiger Flowers

69. James J.Corbett

70. Tony Zale

71. Tommy Ryan

72. Georges Carpentier

73, Sonny Liston

74. "Kid" McCoy

75. Bob Foster

76. Freddie Welsh

77. Joe Jeanette

78. Jim Driscoll

79. Jersey Joe Walcott

80. Peter Jackson

81. Ad Wolgast

82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)

83. Manuel Ortiz

84. James J. Jeffries

85. Salvador Sanchez

86. Jimmy Barry

87. Carlos Ortiz

88. Roy Jones Jr.

89. Wilfredo Gomez

90. Aaron Pryor

91. Bernard Hopkins

92. Mike Gibbons

93. Jack Delaney

94. Johnny Kilbane

95. Willie Ritchie

96. Wilfredo Benitez

97. Packey McFarland

98. Rocky Graziano

99. Lew Jenkins

100. Mike Tyson

[WelshDevilRob]

Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

 

Been meaning to give this a good read having only just discovered it. Hank seemed one of the more sensible historians.

The Hank Kaplan Boxing Archive

https://library.brooklyn.cuny.edu/pages/archives/findaid/Kaplan/index.html

[LondonRingRules]

Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

 

--- on the old aol forum one of the guys was a minor sort of a trainer told of attending an informal party that Sugar was at.

 

He was in his full hat and cigar act. Notice the cigar is never smoked, instead a prop used to bolster his shsstick. A young gal snatched his hat off that blew him up as everyone laughed in delight in his pale, bald pate. I guess like wearing loose fitting casual pants and having someone pull them down behind you.