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Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.


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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

The Precarious Record of 49-0

 

By Jeremiah Preisser

 

I was browsing through my newsfeed today, as I always do, to find that Thailand’s 105-pound alphabet strap-holding Wanheng Menayothin is closing on Floyd Mayweather and Rocky Marciano’s 49-0 record (here and here). Unfortunately for these news outlets that oftentimes confine themselves to current on-goings, historical slipups can be a nuisance.

 

The records of these two men belong in different categorizations, separate from what Menayothin can obtain. So let us not ignore the nuance. Marciano’s record is solely that of the division in which he participated—the heavyweight class. Mayweather, when he was active, could neither match or surpass this mark because the bar had already been set higher—at least on a win/loss basis is concerned—by two other men, Ricardo Lopez and Jimmy Barry.

 

As is fairly well known, though obviously not enough, is that the former Mexican standout, “Finito”, finished his career at the 51-0-1 mark. That, by simple math standards, means he obtained two more victories in his career than did Marciano and Mayweather.

 

Read more: The Precarious Record of 49-0 - The Grueling Truth

 

I do think that they take the draws into account. This would probably be because having a draw on your record means that your record is not perfect.

Others have beaten 49-0 like J.C.Chavez, but they decide to continue fighting instead of thinking I have beaten the record, I will get out now.

49-0 is not really that hard to beat. Alex stewart went 25-0, and if he would have continued fighting that level of opposition, he would have probably beaten it. Joshua could have beaten it and also Wilder, but people these days are hyper critical and they pressure guys into fighting someone good or into fighting for the title, before they can compile a long unbeaten run. Wilder still gets criticized for his oponents despite some being massive and/or unbeaten. You could not go 49-0 if you always fought top class opponents at heavy. For a start, there wouldn't be 49 top class opponents for you to beat. Give Joshua, Marciano's opponents at the stage of their careers that Rocky fought them, and he would also be 49-0.

Holmes could have beaten it if he wouldn't have chosen an unbeaten all time great light heavy, who was too mobile at that stage of his career. He could have picked a bum, just to be able to beat the record, but he didn't. Being unbeaten is not always about being great, it often about fighting the right guys at the right time, and then getting out before someone does beat you.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

I do think that they take the draws into account. This would probably be because having a draw on your record means that your record is not perfect.

Others have beaten 49-0 like J.C.Chavez, but they decide to continue fighting instead of thinking I have beaten the record, I will get out now.

49-0 is not really that hard to beat. Alex stewart went 25-0, and if he would have continued fighting that level of opposition, he would have probably beaten it. Joshua could have beaten it and also Wilder, but people these days are hyper critical and they pressure guys into fighting someone good or into fighting for the title, before they can compile a long unbeaten run. Wilder still gets criticized for his oponents despite some being massive and/or unbeaten. You could not go 49-0 if you always fought top class opponents at heavy. For a start, there wouldn't be 49 top class opponents for you to beat. Give Joshua, Marciano's opponents at the stage of their careers that Rocky fought them, and he would also be 49-0.

Holmes could have beaten it if he wouldn't have chosen an unbeaten all time great light heavy, who was too mobile at that stage of his career. He could have picked a bum, just to be able to beat the record, but he didn't. Being unbeaten is not always about being great, it often about fighting the right guys at the right time, and then getting out before someone does beat you.

 

Agree mate. The draws don't look good when trying to maintain a perfect record. I'm not a fan of Marciano - obviously have huge respect for him but feel he was the top man in a weakened era. Still has some good wins. I liked Alex Stewart - very good fighter and usually gave a good account of himself. Believe he was British but never recall him being hailed as such. Probably could've made a lot more money if he'd come to the UK at some stage.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Marciano is two things with regards to boxing, he is both chronically overrated by some and horrifically underrated by others.

His unique style is seen as technically poor by some but that is simply due to the fact that he applied a different set of principles. Take a look at the writings of Dempsey on the power line structure for hints on how difficult it is to apply raw power correctly and it becomes evident that Marciano was a more than solid technical fighter, he was simply a different technical to what is deemed so in the modern era. His chin and heart must also be mentioned, he fought some very dangerous punchers and progressed, he nearly lost his nose and fought on. There is many positives which are easily overlooked.

The negatives are also plentiful when dissecting his resume, his marquee wins were against cruisers and old men which is undeniable. The only issues with that is that every fighters resume can be ripped to shreds fairly easily and whilst it will always be a marker of a fighter it can never be the only thing you take into consideration which is often what the casuals are incapable of doing.

 

Hi Jimmy. Thanks for your contribution. I just want to make it clear to you, in case you did not realize, that I have not criticized Marciano's style of fighting, or his courage, stamina, will power, or toughness. The thread was to show people that being unbeaten doesn't really mean that you are the best. Wilder is criticized for his opponents, yet Marciano fought some guys with terrible records, one with 57 losses, and it is OK, why? because one of the mods is a big fan, whilst another of the mods hates Wilder. Have fun here pal.

Oh and I am not sure if you are aware, but his best wins were also against former middles and light heavies, who all had multiple losses to lesser men.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Wilder still gets criticized for his oponents despite some being massive and/or unbeaten.

 

Massive as in fat or tall? Because clearly you don't mean massive names, because there aren't any on Wilder's record!

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Agree mate. The draws don't look good when trying to maintain a perfect record. I'm not a fan of Marciano - obviously have huge respect for him but feel he was the top man in a weakened era. Still has some good wins. I liked Alex Stewart - very good fighter and usually gave a good account of himself. Believe he was British but never recall him being hailed as such. Probably could've made a lot more money if he'd come to the UK at some stage.

 

Thank you for calling me mate. I have tried very hard to be just that. A draw means some people will think you won, some will think you lost, so it I suppose it is debateable as to whether or not you are considered unbeaten. If you are a fan he is unbeaten, if you dislike the guy, he lost.

If we take that attitude, then some would say Holmes beat Rocky's record, but with FAR tougher opposition.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Massive as in fat or tall? Because clearly you don't mean massive names, because there aren't any on Wilder's record!

Yes I clearly don't mean names Gav. I was referring to Washington.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Yes I clearly don't mean names Gav. I was referring to Washington.

Supposedly,Ray Austin is the same size as Washington, but Austin always seemed a smaller guy to me.

 

Have we reached a point in time when all future heavyweights will be giants, or could we ever see another Marciano?

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Supposedly,Ray Austin is the same size as Washington, but Austin always seemed a smaller guy to me.

 

Have we reached a point in time when all future heavyweights will be giants, or could we ever see another Marciano?

If we did get another Marciano, he would only be cruiser champ. Usyk is fairly similar, but not as relentless.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Think about him as a bigger Golovkin.

 

GGG is reputed to hit harder than Povetkin by a mutual sparring partner.

Whether or not thats true, you at least know that how people feel about him.

 

Now imagine Rocky, who is naturally 20lb or so bigger than Golovkin in frame.

If Golovkin is already hitting as hard as heavyweights, imagine what another 20lb of frame would do to his power?

Thats Marciano.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Think about him as a bigger Golovkin.

 

GGG is reputed to hit harder than Povetkin by a mutual sparring partner.

Whether or not thats true, you at least know that how people feel about him.

 

Now imagine Rocky, who is naturally 20lb or so bigger than Golovkin in frame.

If Golovkin is already hitting as hard as heavyweights, imagine what another 20lb of frame would do to his power?

Thats Marciano.

Ha ha.Thanks for your contribution. Daniel Jacobs doesn't take the best punch, so if he was being hit by someone who hits as hard as a heavyweight, he would not have seen the final bell.

Also do you think a welterweight (Kell Brook) could last five rounds with a guy who punched like a heavyweight? He wasn't knocked out cold either.

You are also saying that Marciano was 20lbs heavier than GGG, and therefore hit even harder than a normal heavyweight. If that was the case, why did it take him 9rds to stop a 45 year old light heavyweight, with 19 losses, and who had been KO'd by light heavies? Don Cockell had been KO'd by a former middleweight, but still stood up to non stop punches for 9rds from Rocky without being KO'd. He was only TKO'd.

So, no he was not superhuman, he was however, tough as nails, and very fit.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Ha ha.Thanks for your contribution. Daniel Jacobs doesn't take the best punch, so if he was being hit by someone who hits as hard as a heavyweight, he would not have seen the final bell.

Also do you think a welterweight (Kell Brook) could last five rounds with a guy who punched like a heavyweight? He wasn't knocked out cold either.

You are also saying that Marciano was 20lbs heavier than GGG, and therefore hit even harder than a normal heavyweight. If that was the case, why did it take him 9rds to stop a 45 year old light heavyweight, with 19 losses, and who had been KO'd by light heavies? Don Cockell had been KO'd by a former middleweight, but still stood up to non stop punches for 9rds from Rocky without being KO'd. He was only TKO'd.

So, no he was not superhuman, he was however, tough as nails, and very fit.

 

Jacobs fought a spoiler fight. And a damn good one.

Every puncher faces some spoilers.

 

But did you see the knockdown? He literally got tapped on the chin twice with a short right from the elbow and folded.

He did good to avoid Golovkins best punches, and setting up traps, but it wasn't his durability or Golovkins lack of power that did it.

 

You know why is took Marciano to knock out so and so longer than so and so?

Because that's boxing. Every fighter is a different version on any given night.

Certain styles or tendencies interact differently to one another.

 

Why couldn't Foreman KO Peralta?

Why did Mitch Green go the distance with Tyson, when he was TKOd in 3 by a 8-22 fighter?

The examples here are endless.

 

The fact is Rocky had wicked power despite his small size.

He took out Walcott with one short right in the 13th that put him out for minutes.

Rocky, in his 10 fights available on film, completely knocked 3 fighters unconscious.

We have 15 percent of his fights on film, yet his highlight reel is better than most fighters.

Imagine if we had every single fight?

 

Rocky is underrated imo

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Jacobs fought a spoiler fight. And a damn good one.

Every puncher faces some spoilers.

 

But did you see the knockdown? He literally got tapped on the chin twice with a short right from the elbow and folded.

He did good to avoid Golovkins best punches, and setting up traps, but it wasn't his durability or Golovkins lack of power that did it.

 

You know why is took Marciano to knock out so and so longer than so and so?

Because that's boxing. Every fighter is a different version on any given night.

Certain styles or tendencies interact differently to one another.

 

Why couldn't Foreman KO Peralta?

Why did Mitch Green go the distance with Tyson, when he was TKOd in 3 by a 8-22 fighter?

The examples here are endless.

 

The fact is Rocky had wicked power despite his small size.

He took out Walcott with one short right in the 13th that put him out for minutes.

Rocky, in his 10 fights available on film, completely knocked 3 fighters unconscious.

We have 15 percent of his fights on film, yet his highlight reel is better than most fighters.

Imagine if we had every single fight?

 

Rocky is underrated imo

 

Yes if we had his complete collection on tape, we could see him beating guys with as many as 57 losses, instead of just reading about it.

Yes he Ko'd Walcott with a short right, but you must take into consideration that Joe was 37 and by the 13th rd, he would have been weaker due to tiredness. Also as I keep pointing out, 37 in the 1950's was older than today's equivalent.

No big achievement to put Louis unconscious either, he was way past his best, and had come out of retirement. He was often training at home for his fights too.

I don't know why you think that his HL reel is better than most fighters. Have a look at Pipino Cuevas, Hearns, Gatti, Holyfield, Tyson. Lewis, Mugabi, Frazier, and thousands of others, and they won't be showing old men and ex middles/light heavies being KO'd or TKO'd, by a naturally bigger man either. Even Alex Stewarts early HL reel would be far more impressive, with 25-0 all by KO. Mugabi 26-0 all by KO.

I don't dislike Rocky, and only started the thread to show that being unbeaten does not mean you are the the best. I could have used Mayweather as an example instead, but he has a MUCH better resume, so despite me not really liking Floyd, I used Marciano. No offence to his fans, but facts are facts.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Yes if we had his complete collection on tape, we could see him beating guys with as many as 57 losses, instead of just reading about it.

Yes he Ko'd Walcott with a short right, but you must take into consideration that Joe was 37 and by the 13th rd, he would have been weaker due to tiredness. Also as I keep pointing out, 37 in the 1950's was older than today's equivalent.

No big achievement to put Louis unconscious either, he was way past his best, and had come out of retirement. He was often training at home for his fights too.

I don't know why you think that his HL reel is better than most fighters. Have a look at Pipino Cuevas, Hearns, Gatti, Holyfield, Tyson. Lewis, Mugabi, Frazier, and thousands of others, and they won't be showing old men and ex middles/light heavies being KO'd or TKO'd, by a naturally bigger man either. Even Alex Stewarts early HL reel would be far more impressive, with 25-0 all by KO. Mugabi 26-0 all by KO.

I don't dislike Rocky, and only started the thread to show that being unbeaten does not mean you are the the best. I could have used Mayweather as an example instead, but he has a MUCH better resume, so despite me not really liking Floyd, I used Marciano. No offence to his fans, but facts are facts.

 

He fought the best of his era, what more can he do?

Walcott is an ATG, no shame in knocking him out in the 13th in the most iconic knockout in the sports history.

Louis was on a 10 fight winning streak, and was a legitimate contender. He wasn't matched up with Rocky as a favor.

 

Frazier has only 4 KO's on film, and less spectacular than Rockys, he doesn't have a better highlight reel.

Rocky didn't only KO small men, he KO'd everyone from that era. In fact, the worst beatings he gave were to the biggest opponents.

 

It's not about being a fan. I don't have a grandpa on a rocking chair waxing stories about Rocky.

It just is what it is.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

He fought the best of his era, what more can he do?

Walcott is an ATG, no shame in knocking him out in the 13th in the most iconic knockout in the sports history.

Louis was on a 10 fight winning streak, and was a legitimate contender. He wasn't matched up with Rocky as a favor.

 

Frazier has only 4 KO's on film, and less spectacular than Rockys, he doesn't have a better highlight reel.

Rocky didn't only KO small men, he KO'd everyone from that era. In fact, the worst beatings he gave were to the biggest opponents.

 

It's not about being a fan. I don't have a grandpa on a rocking chair waxing stories about Rocky.

It just is what it is.

 

"It just is what it is"....to you, and it is what it is to me. You say he did not KO only small men, but two of his three( I am not even going to include Louis as a name, as he was so past his best, it would be unfair) named opponents were smaller men, who moved up in order to make more money. Charles fought as a middleweight at the start of his pro career. Moore also fought as a middleweight. I can't believe you are actually trying to give him credit for beating Joe Louis! Who by the way, was not on a 10 fight winning streak, it was 8. Before those 8 wins, he had been beaten by Walcott, but they gave him the decision, he avenged it then retired for over two years and came back to a loss. Even Rocky himself didn't give himself credit for that win, so I don't know why you do.

I don't know why you think that Frazier only has four ko's on film, as I have far more in my collection, plus a HL reel could show knockdowns, and knocking down Ali when you are tired, late in a fight, is far more impressive than any knock down Marciano scored.

I listed only a few guys that I thought would look good on HL reels, that is all. I didn't do an in depth study and analysis of every fight available on film. Replace Frazier with Julian Jackson then, now that is true one punch knockout power, not clubbing away at old smaller men until they wilt.

Also, I am fully aware that one can only fight the best of his era....my point is, that he was lucky that the best, were past THEIR best and were in some instances also naturally smaller...hence the title of the thread.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Yes if we had his complete collection on tape, we could see him beating guys with as many as 57 losses, instead of just reading about it.

Yes he Ko'd Walcott with a short right, but you must take into consideration that Joe was 37 and by the 13th rd, he would have been weaker due to tiredness. Also as I keep pointing out, 37 in the 1950's was older than today's equivalent.

No big achievement to put Louis unconscious either, he was way past his best, and had come out of retirement. He was often training at home for his fights too.

I don't know why you think that his HL reel is better than most fighters. Have a look at Pipino Cuevas, Hearns, Gatti, Holyfield, Tyson. Lewis, Mugabi, Frazier, and thousands of others, and they won't be showing old men and ex middles/light heavies being KO'd or TKO'd, by a naturally bigger man either. Even Alex Stewarts early HL reel would be far more impressive, with 25-0 all by KO. Mugabi 26-0 all by KO.

I don't dislike Rocky, and only started the thread to show that being unbeaten does not mean you are the the best. I could have used Mayweather as an example instead, but he has a MUCH better resume, so despite me not really liking Floyd, I used Marciano. No offence to his fans, but facts are facts.

 

 

Ali was hurt by Shavers and had a hard fight against him-Rocky was a class above Shavers. And had a better chin. Do the math. Not saying Rocky would win for sure, but given that nobody could beat him back then, there is a good chance that he could win. Henry Cooper almost knocked Ali out ffs!

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Ali was hurt by Shavers and had a hard fight against him-Rocky was a class above Shavers. And had a better chin. Do the math. Not saying Rocky would win for sure, but given that nobody could beat him back then, there is a good chance that he could win. Henry Cooper almost knocked Ali out ffs!

 

Ok let us look at this in a fair way. You say he was rocked by Shavers as though that is evidence that strengthens Marciano's chances of a win against Ali. Don't you take into consideration the fact that Shavers is generally considered the hardest puncher in heavyweight history? Or that Ali was wayyyyy past his prime? And considering these two things, what happened? Was he decked? In fact it was so minimal that Shavers himself did not even know that he had hurt him, which he admits to this day. He worked as a doorman in Liverpool and I spoke to him many times.

Cooper did not almost KO him, and that can be backed up by this fact. He was knocked down when he was really tired, in one of the most gruelling fights in heavyweight history, by a much harder puncher than Cooper, and STILL got straight back up. People exaggerate what happened in the Cooper fight, but in reality only 20 seconds were gained by Angelo Dundee pointing out that there was a split in Ali's glove. If those 20 seconds were not gained, he surely would have been able to continue after the normal one minute rest period.

I always look at all sides to an argument, so I will throw this into the mix...If Leon Spinks could beat Ali, Marciano could, but a peak Ali? I VERY much doubt it.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Ok let us look at this in a fair way. You say he was rocked by Shavers as though that is evidence that strengthens Marciano's chances of a win against Ali. Don't you take into consideration the fact that Shavers is generally considered the hardest puncher in heavyweight history? Or that Ali was wayyyyy past his prime? And considering these two things, what happened? Was he decked? In fact it was so minimal that Shavers himself did not even know that he had hurt him, which he admits to this day. He worked as a doorman in Liverpool and I spoke to him many times.

Cooper did not almost KO him, and that can be backed up by this fact. He was knocked down when he was really tired, in one of the most gruelling fights in heavyweight history, by a much harder puncher than Cooper, and STILL got straight back up. People exaggerate what happened in the Cooper fight, but in reality only 20 seconds were gained by Angelo Dundee pointing out that there was a split in Ali's glove. If those 20 seconds were not gained, he surely would have been able to continue after the normal one minute rest period.

I always look at all sides to an argument, so I will throw this into the mix...If Leon Spinks could beat Ali, Marciano could, but a peak Ali? I VERY much doubt it.

Really? After THREE rounds? No, he was showboating and showing off thinking that slow Englishman can't catch him and he did just that. It was a matter of taking Cooper too lightly, but had it not been for Dundee and his cheating, Ali would SURELY have gotten stopped in the next round. Ali got like 10 minutes longer in his corner because of that glove. I guess you know what I am talking about so I won't go into details.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

"It just is what it is"....to you, and it is what it is to me. You say he did not KO only small men, but two of his three( I am not even going to include Louis as a name, as he was so past his best, it would be unfair) named opponents were smaller men, who moved up in order to make more money. Charles fought as a middleweight at the start of his pro career. Moore also fought as a middleweight. I can't believe you are actually trying to give him credit for beating Joe Louis! Who by the way, was not on a 10 fight winning streak, it was 8. Before those 8 wins, he had been beaten by Walcott, but they gave him the decision, he avenged it then retired for over two years and came back to a loss. Even Rocky himself didn't give himself credit for that win, so I don't know why you do.

I don't know why you think that Frazier only has four ko's on film, as I have far more in my collection, plus a HL reel could show knockdowns, and knocking down Ali when you are tired, late in a fight, is far more impressive than any knock down Marciano scored.

I listed only a few guys that I thought would look good on HL reels, that is all. I didn't do an in depth study and analysis of every fight available on film. Replace Frazier with Julian Jackson then, now that is true one punch knockout power, not clubbing away at old smaller men until they wilt.

Also, I am fully aware that one can only fight the best of his era....my point is, that he was lucky that the best, were past THEIR best and were in some instances also naturally smaller...hence the title of the thread.

 

Just because Rocky didn't beat the best Louis, it doesn't mean he didn't beat a great fighter. Thank you for the correction. 8 fight winning streak with some knockouts, Louis was still a very legit contender.

You can only discount it through the lens of 90's documentary esque simplified storytelling. Through contemporary analysis, it was a very good win.

 

Do you really have much more than 4 Frazier KO's? Cool!

Which ones do you have if you don't mind me asking?

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

 

Frazier has only 4 KO's on film.

 

--- Rez, many more fights were available on you tube in early to mid 2000 than now, perhaps a 2000% or even more.

 

If you are interested in special footage, might try to find a collector's club. Because of copyright laws, most of the great youtube channels were obliterated. This guy, The Great A was one of the greatest and managed to survive the purge, but his site has been greatly neutered: Maybe if you email him he or someone he knows can sell you a copy of what you want.

 

TheGreatA

- YouTube

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Really? After THREE rounds?

 

He's talking about Ali-Frazier 14th(?) round there - he's saying Ali survived against Frazier after taking much more punishment so Cooper wouldn't have knocked him out. I don't agree that one proves the other though - Ali was a younger, greener fighter then, and his expression says it all.

 

Ali got like 10 minutes longer in his corner because of that glove. I guess you know what I am talking about so I won't go into details.

That's a myth - the timekeeper said the interval between rounds was 1 minute 40 seconds, and it's been said on here before that the delay is no more than a few seconds - five or six.

 

Given Ali was up on his feet, however dazed, it's not unreasonable to think he could have recovered inside the minute anyway, but there's nowt like making sure.

Edited by gavpowell
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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

--- Rez, many more fights were available on you tube in early to mid 2000 than now, perhaps a 2000% or even more.

 

If you are interested in special footage, might try to find a collector's club. Because of copyright laws, most of the great youtube channels were obliterated. This guy, The Great A was one of the greatest and managed to survive the purge, but his site has been greatly neutered: Maybe if you email him he or someone he knows can sell you a copy of what you want.

 

TheGreatA

- YouTube

 

Damn, that's a shame.

 

I actually thought the trend was going in the opposite direction with Boxing Hall of Fame uploading all their library.

To me this is a good thing, because that means there is still tons of more stuff out there!

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

He's talking about Ali-Frazier 14th(?) round there - he's saying Ali survived against Frazier after taking much more punishment so Cooper wouldn't have knocked him out. I don't agree that one proves the other though - Ali was a younger, greener fighter then, and his expression says it all.

 

 

That's a myth - the timekeeper said the interval between rounds was 1 minute 40 seconds, and it's been said on here before that the delay is no more than a few seconds - five or six.

 

Given Ali was up on his feet, however dazed, it's not unreasonable to think he could have recovered inside the minute anyway, but there's nowt like making sure.

 

Dundee had to go to the dressing room, as far as I understood, to get the new glove. That I'm sure MUST HAVE taken a bit longer than just under 2 minutes. Just the walk to the dressing room takes at least one minute and then finding the glove and walking back...I'd say about 5 minutes.

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Re: Being unbeaten does not make you the best. Rocky Marciano.

 

Dundee had to go to the dressing room, as far as I understood, to get the new glove. That I'm sure MUST HAVE taken a bit longer than just under 2 minutes. Just the walk to the dressing room takes at least one minute and then finding the glove and walking back...I'd say about 5 minutes.

Didn't happen- he admits slightly widening the teartobuyabitmoretime,but apparently the unedited footage shows a delay of about 5 seconds, as the ref decided the glove didn't need replacing, and Ali is still using it in round 5. Cooper meanwhile spent the rest of his career claiming he was robbed.

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