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“The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes


WelshDevilRob
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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

"People disagree on here all the time, it's not a big deal, we move on to other things. Christ, LRR and I have spent about a decade openly despising each other and yet we're both still here."

 

I have moved on. I was unfairly treated by a few mods, and still try to be friends with them. Also Dave (whom I was accused of arguing with) I am friendly with, by MY actions...yet you are telling me to move on, whilst you argue bitterly with you know who, every chance you get, for nearly a decade, and obviously a long time to come.

I not am blaming you for that, merely showing you the inconsistency in your criticism of me. I didn't want to use the word hypocrisy..

My points are just about clearing my name, and clearing up any misunderstandings. I am not in a feud with anyone.

Peace Mr champion emeritus.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

There is always at least one hater who posts on threads that are started by an admirer. Sometimes it is because they like arguing, sometimes it is because they are jealous that the fighter in question may overshadow their hero, or may even have beaten him.

Regardless, Larry was an excellent boxer, with great heart, and people who want to mock an old man being knocked down by Butterbean, should remember that, he still got up to win, just like he did when he was younger and was floored by the hardest puncher in heavyweight history.

There is a VERY valid reason that there was no rematch with Norton. Norton and Shavers fought each other on the Holmes v Ocasio undercard, with the winner obviously getting a title shot, but when you get knocked out in 1rd, it is unlikely that you would get said title shot. Specially since in the following three fights, he had a draw, a split decision win and another 1rd ko loss.

To be perfectly honest, I have one of the worlds biggest fight collections, and have obviously seen many thousands of bouts, but I simply do not see, what some see, when I watch Holmes v Norton, I see a very clear Holmes win, and I am no Norton hater. I have met him at the NEC Birmingham, and he is a lovely guy, plus I tell everyone that imo, he beat Ali in three out of three fights.

 

And YET, you don't question his greatness despite those two gifts against Witherspoon and Williams. If it were Rocky, you'd instantly say he wasn't all that great, because he had 2 disputed wins. That my friend is called biased.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

"People disagree on here all the time, it's not a big deal, we move on to other things. Christ, LRR and I have spent about a decade openly despising each other and yet we're both still here."

 

I have moved on. I was unfairly treated by a few mods, and still try to be friends with them. Also Dave (whom I was accused of arguing with) I am friendly with, by MY actions...yet you are telling me to move on, whilst you argue bitterly with you know who, every chance you get, for nearly a decade, and obviously a long time to come.

I not am blaming you for that, merely showing you the inconsistency in your criticism of me. I didn't want to use the word hypocrisy..

My points are just about clearing my name, and clearing up any misunderstandings. I am not in a feud with anyone.

Peace Mr champion emeritus.

Yeah...I knew THIS would come. :ranger: You were not unfairly treated by me, ffs it was just a SINGLE POINT INFRACTION, I received 4 in my first year here and didn't bitch about it for a year! You better stop taking this to a personal level, word to the wise.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Holmes was also a dirty fighter. Believe he was accused of deliberately thumbing some opponents.

 

Dirty, unsportsmanlike and whined too much about not being loved like Ali. When you have such a boring personality and a style that consists of slowly wearing people down primarily with jabs, what do you expect?

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Dirty, unsportsmanlike and whined too much about not being loved like Ali. When you have such a boring personality and a style that consists of slowly wearing people down primarily with jabs, what do you expect?

 

I am greatly offended that you speak of Holmes like this, but unlike you, I cannot threaten to close the thread, like you did when I asked if Marciano was overrated. Nor can I defend Holmes, without fear of being called argumentative, or not accepting anyone else's views

I am not looking for arguments, I am merely trying to show you how unfair the situation is.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Yeah...I knew THIS would come. :ranger: You were not unfairly treated by me, ffs it was just a SINGLE POINT INFRACTION, I received 4 in my first year here and didn't bitch about it for a year! You better stop taking this to a personal level, word to the wise.

 

I had better stop taking it to a personal level? What even though you contacted me by private message and admitted the necessity for you to apolgize for your pettyness toward me, because you were a big Marciano fan, and had therefore taken my criticism as "personal"...and it wasn't a single point...and it was without warning, and I had only just joined.

You pulled me for mentioning Italy being controversial in history, whilst on a thread talking about Italy's history of being controversial, as not being about boxing, yet right next to my post was a post that was not in any way about boxing, and you said nothing to that person. How am I not going to take it personal?

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

And YET, you don't question his greatness despite those two gifts against Witherspoon and Williams. If it were Rocky, you'd instantly say he wasn't all that great, because he had 2 disputed wins. That my friend is called biased.

 

I am not biased at all. I am and always will be, totally fair...unlike the treatment I get on here.

Firstly they were disputed decisions, not outright robberies, and the major difference with Holmes and Marciano was that Holmes actually did beat loads of great fighters, loads of unbeaten fighters, fighters who went on to become champs, young fighters. He also fought to a much older age, and still did well.

I would not question someone's greatness on the strength of two disputed decisions. His losses to Spinks were also controversial, but seeing as you don't like him, you won't agree, especially since it would have meant that he would have beaten your idol's 49-0 and the possibly retired.

Marciano fought 6 times as champ, 3 of those 6 were against guys he had already beaten, and none were unbeaten. Holmes defended 19 times and ten were unbeaten.

Ali had disputed decisions, as did Joe Louis, and no one questions their greatness...well no reasonable person anyway.

I have said MANY times that I am not looking for enemies or arguments, but everything I do to defend myself or a boxer, causes me to get hate.

If you don't me to show you to be wrong, then don't accuse me of something I am not.

That is fair surely?

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Well despite sending me a PM to apologize for admitting you were doing what I had said, and looking for any excuse to find fault and criticize. I am not biased at all. I am and always will be totally fair...unlike the treatment I get on here.

Firstly they were disputed decisions, not outright robberies, and the major difference with Holmes and Marciano was that Holmes actually did beat loads of great fighters, loads of unbeaten fighters, fighters who went on to become champs, young fighters. He also fought to a much older age, and still did well.

I would not question someones greatness on the strength of two disputed decisions. His losses to Spinks were also controversial, but seeing as you don't like him, you won't agree, especially since it would have meant that he would have beaten your idol's 49-0 and the possibly retired.

Marciano fought 6 times as champ, 3 of those 6 were against guys he had already beaten, and none were unbeaten. Holmes defended 19 times and ten were unbeaten.

Ali had disputed decisions, as did Joe Louis, and no one questions their greatness...well no reasonable person anyway.

I have said MANY times that I am not looking for enemies or arguments, but everything I do to defend myself or a boxer, causes me to get hate.

If you don't me to show you to be wrong, then don't accuse me of something I am not.

That is fair surely?

LOADS of great fighters? Lol...how many great fighters were there in the 80's actually?? Norton was already starting to slide and would be destroyed by Shavers a year later. He was 6 years older than Holmes. Leon Spinks was never that good and was undersized for a heavyweight. Berbick gave him a tough fight but was never great. And I'm sure you didn't mean Ali, that win we all know was so tainted. Holmes also didn't fight Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tubbs and Gerrie Coetzee, all among the best fighters of that time.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

I had better stop taking it to a personal level? What even though you contacted me by private message and admitted the necessity for you to apolgize for your pettyness toward me, because you were a big Marciano fan, and had therefore taken my criticism as "personal"...and it wasn't a single point...and it was without warning, and I had only just joined.

You pulled me for mentioning Italy being controversial in history, whilst on a thread talking about Italy's history of being controversial, as not being about boxing, yet right next to my post was a post that was not in any way about boxing, and you said nothing to that person. How am I not going to take it personal?

 

I did that because I felt sorry for you, for some reason. It was a moment of weakness. Don't make too much of it. And I don't know what other post you are talking about.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

I am greatly offended that you speak of Holmes like this, but unlike you, I cannot threaten to close the thread, like you did when I asked if Marciano was overrated. Nor can I defend Holmes, without fear of being called argumentative, or not accepting anyone else's views

I am not looking for arguments, I am merely trying to show you how unfair the situation is.

You can't threaten, but you can speak your mind. Please, go ahead. No problem.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

You can't threaten, but you can speak your mind. Please, go ahead. No problem.

 

Let us not take this out of context. I want to make it clear that the word "threaten" was in no way a threat. I was merely stating that I could not do what you did, as I do not have the power of a mod.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Let us not take this out of context. I want to make it clear that the word "threaten" was in no way a threat. I was merely stating that I could not do what you did, as I do not have the power of a mod.

 

Yeah, I understand. Everybody can speak their mind without being banned, as long as they can control their emotions.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

I did that because I felt sorry for you, for some reason. It was a moment of weakness. Don't make too much of it. And I don't know what other post you are talking about.

Oh so you weren't genuine in your apology then? It wasn't because you took it personal, because you were a big Marciano fan then?

It was a moment of weakness? So were all the other times when you said you didn't mean to be mean to me, or that you could see I was a decent guy and asked if I would forgive you, also all not genuine? So does that mean that you don't want to be friends after all? I really don't know where I stand.

What do I need to do, to be able to do what you supposed to do on a forum? Which is chat, give your opinions, think of topics to discuss, and make friends. Every single post I make, someone is looking to get personal or criticize me, but if I take it personal, somehow I am to blame!

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Yeah, I understand. Everybody can speak their mind without being banned, as long as they can control their emotions.

 

I have controlled my emotions in every single post I have made.Never sworn once, or been remotely offensive. I have said things like "I don't agree, but don't want to make enemies". Another was, "maybe, it wasn't the boxers fault, who he has to fight". Not to mention the word "peace" at the end of many posts, just to emphesize that I was not angry or wanting to fall out....and even that was criticized!!!

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

LOADS of great fighters? Lol...how many great fighters were there in the 80's actually?? Norton was already starting to slide and would be destroyed by Shavers a year later. He was 6 years older than Holmes. Leon Spinks was never that good and was undersized for a heavyweight. Berbick gave him a tough fight but was never great. And I'm sure you didn't mean Ali, that win we all know was so tainted. Holmes also didn't fight Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tubbs and Gerrie Coetzee, all among the best fighters of that time.

Funny how ton's of people consider that one of Nortons best performances if he was so shot, and if he was shot, then obviously you wouldn't agree that Holmes ducked a rematch with him would you! But no doubt you have done so, when one of his haters has accused him of such.

Unbeaten fighters are difficult to gauge. No one knows their limits or full capabilities, so to defend against 10 unbeaten fighters, takes guts and skill.

Yes he did not fight those fighters you listed, nor did he fight Dokes, but we can either assume that he was scared(despite the fact that he fought an unbeaten Tyson, when he was an old man) or we can think that maybe, there were reasons that the fights were not made to do with money or the governing bodies....I know which you will choose.

Great fighters he beat? Norton, Shavers(twice) Weaver, Witherspoon and dependant upon how you see it, Spinks. I am not so stupid as to add Ali to the list.

Good fighters he beat, Snipes, Cooney, Berbick, Smith, Cobb, Jones, Mercer Bey, and yes Leon Spinks. He was an olympic champ and as a pro was relentless against Ali, instead of inexperienced, in awe or inept, and that was for 15 rds. He just did not train and was a party animal, it was not that he was not good. I would actually call most of these guys great fighters, but that doesn't mean that I think they are legends. Normally if you become heavyweight champ, you are good to great, except on a very rare occasion.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Cobb was not elite level. Just a big, strong, tough guy who was there to be hit against world class fighters. Great guy but far from great boxer. Cooney was a bit better, but he was more of a huge guy with a huge punch than a complete fighter. And his chin, opposite to Cobb's, was shaky. Mercer? I actually, you won't like this, but I thought Mercer just nicked that fight. Snipes was an ok win, but Snipes sent Holmes down and he wasn't a particularly hard hitter. Bey was good but he faded badly after and it seems also during the Holmes fight. I seem to recall, I did an article on him here, that he was struggling with flu just before that fight.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Oh so you weren't genuine in your apology then? It wasn't because you took it personal, because you were a big Marciano fan then?

It was a moment of weakness? So were all the other times when you said you didn't mean to be mean to me, or that you could see I was a decent guy and asked if I would forgive you, also all not genuine? So does that mean that you don't want to be friends after all? I really don't know where I stand.

What do I need to do, to be able to do what you supposed to do on a forum? Which is chat, give your opinions, think of topics to discuss, and make friends. Every single post I make, someone is looking to get personal or criticize me, but if I take it personal, somehow I am to blame!

 

I did take it personal. But I also think you are using this forum to vent sometimes. Don't. It's not fair.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

I did take it personal. But I also think you are using this forum to vent sometimes. Don't. It's not fair.

 

Boz, I AM THE ONE WHO IS ALWAYS FAIR.

You have just admitted that you took it personally, that I had an opinion about a boxer that you did not like to hear, so you threatened to close the thread, then started picking at every single thing I posted, in order to try to get back at me ,which was exactly what happened the first time I had a problem with you when I (like a few others) had a little joke about a video you posted. You knew those guys, so it was ok, but because I was new, you took offence, and that is why you gave me bad points without warning, which again, you virtually admitted to. That is why I was annoyed about the bad points, it was done in an unfair way. I am not harping on about the past(which is probably what you would have written in reply) I am just showing the hypocrisy, of accusing me of being unfair. I am not venting whatsoever, am not coming on here for arguments. I come on to take my mind off my problems, but end up with more.

I really am not at all a trouble maker, I just keep having to defend myself against false accusations....non stop.

Ok pal, start afresh, shall we?

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

--- Threads start to read like sublime comedy when comparing tubby Lar to Rocky.

 

I never begrudged him his Rocky jockstrap comment because Rocky's brother had been harassing him, but point in fact Rocky couldn't carry Lars jock because he'd need a microscope to see it. Rocky 6-0, 5 ko record against HOFers and Tubbs 2-4, 1 ko. Rocky got into decent shape training for the Ali superfight and Ali was impressed. It's not a stretch to think Rocky could knock out Lar in those 1st 3 years as a pro had he known Tubbs would be abusing his name

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Boz, I AM THE ONE WHO IS ALWAYS FAIR.

You have just admitted that you took it personally, that I had an opinion about a boxer that you did not like to hear, so you threatened to close the thread, then started picking at every single thing I posted, in order to try to get back at me ,which was exactly what happened the first time I had a problem with you when I (like a few others) had a little joke about a video you posted. You knew those guys, so it was ok, but because I was new, you took offence, and that is why you gave me bad points without warning, which again, you virtually admitted to. That is why I was annoyed about the bad points, it was done in an unfair way. I am not harping on about the past(which is probably what you would have written in reply) I am just showing the hypocrisy, of accusing me of being unfair. I am not venting whatsoever, am not coming on here for arguments. I come on to take my mind off my problems, but end up with more.

I really am not at all a trouble maker, I just keep having to defend myself against false accusations....non stop.

Ok pal, start afresh, shall we?

What about you and the Holmes thread? You are accusing me of the same thing that you did there. Really...I'm sick and tired of this. I don't mind starting afresh, but you just gotta realize that we are all biased in some things-yes, you too.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

What about you and the Holmes thread? You are accusing me of the same thing that you did there. Really...I'm sick and tired of this. I don't mind starting afresh, but you just gotta realize that we are all biased in some things-yes, you too.

 

No, absolutely 100% no. I am totally fair. I am well known for it. I admit my bad points and have many, but one thing I am not, is biased or unfair.

If I know bad things about a boxer I admire, I will admit to them. I mentioned on other threads about special treatment Leonard got in the Lalonde fight, and his cheating on Juanita. He also took drugs, but not performance enhancing ones.

I mentioned Wilfredo Gomez not really beating Lockridge, which means that he was not really a three time champ. I had no reason to mention that at all.

I will NEVER criticize one boxer for something, and then praise another for doing the same thing.

Another completely incorrect accusation by you, of me, for which I will again receive no apology.

I do not know everything about every boxer on the planet. So if I do not mention something, please do not assume that I am being a hypocrite, biased, unfair. I spent my whole life, building an honest and fair reputation, and I don't want people like you, tarnishing it.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

No, absolutely 100% no. I am totally fair. I am well known for it. I admit my bad points and have many, but one thing I am not, is biased or unfair.

If I know bad things about a boxer I admire, I will admit to them. I mentioned on other threads about special treatment Leonard got in the Lalonde fight, and his cheating on Juanita. He also took drugs, but not performance enhancing ones.

I mentioned Wilfredo Gomez not really beating Lockridge, which means that he was not really a three time champ. I had no reason to mention that at all.

I will NEVER criticize one boxer for something, and then praise another for doing the same thing.

Another completely incorrect accusation by you, of me, for which I will again receive no apology.

I do not know everything about every boxer on the planet. So if I do not mention something, please do not assume that I am being a hypocrite, biased, unfair. I spent my whole life, building an honest and fair reputation, and I don't want people like you, tarnishing it.

Yeah, ok...so, everyone else is pretty much biased EXCEPT for our friend here. Isn't that wishful thinking? I'd say so. You also seem to have illusions of grandeur. But I dare not go further, because this may escalate, as we all know.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

--- Threads start to read like sublime comedy when comparing tubby Lar to Rocky.

 

I never begrudged him his Rocky jockstrap comment because Rocky's brother had been harassing him, but point in fact Rocky couldn't carry Lars jock because he'd need a microscope to see it. Rocky 6-0, 5 ko record against HOFers and Tubbs 2-4, 1 ko. Rocky got into decent shape training for the Ali superfight and Ali was impressed. It's not a stretch to think Rocky could knock out Lar in those 1st 3 years as a pro had he known Tubbs would be abusing his name

"Ali superfight"? You mean the one in which Ali threw the slowest softest punches that he possibly could? The one in which they released a version that Rocky won, as a tribute, due to him dying?

You recently did a comparison showing Joshua stats against some greats from the past, and in that analogy, you showed some stats (albeit in a biased way) and again you are doing the same.

The 6-0 record against hall of famers, isn't as good as it sounds when you consider that of those 6, 4 of them where against two men. 1 of those men was 37, and in the fifties, 37 was older than it is now.

1 was against a 45 year old light heavy.

1 was against a totally washed up, ex champ, who was only making a comeback, due to massive tax problems.

2 of those hall of famers were not natural heavies.

I mentioned before, but you are confusing people, especially newcomers, by referring to Holmes as Tubbs with a capital t, as it appears you are refering to Tony Tubbs.

Holmes was normal for an 80's heavy by the way. Witherspoon, Tubbs, Page, Tate, Snipes, Berbick, Leroy Johnson, etc all had that build. They did not have the steroids that many modern heavies seemingly use, so there is no reason to keep singling him out, other than to show your contempt for him.

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Re: “The Easton Assassin” Larry Holmes

 

Yeah, ok...so, everyone else is pretty much biased EXCEPT for our friend here. Isn't that wishful thinking? I'd say so. You also seem to have illusions of grandeur. But I dare not go further, because this may escalate, as we all know.

Yeah as we all know it will escalate. Because you like to use your power as a mod, to bully people, therefore if anyone dare to defend FALSE accusations, we all know how quick you are to threaten them with a ban.

I just PROVED I am not biased! I just gave examples of my fairness! What more can I do? Those posts are on these forums, and are not hard to find.

I have just been looking at previous posts of yours to me. Ones in which you tell me not to take things personally, but then find others in which you admit that YOU did take things personally.

You STILL have not addressed the issue that I raised a good few times now, in which you criticized my post regarding Duran. The one in which you criticized my bias, and quoted me, but totally missed the fact that in that very quote, I had actually said, exactly what you accused me of purposely leaving out. So again, I showed right there, that I was UNBIASED AND FAIR....totally unlike you.

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