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Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko


reznick
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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

--- Jack loved KO big heavies and Vitali of course feasted on smaller heavies.

 

Each would be the greatest and toughest heavy they ever faced. I give the edge to Vitali because he can't be KO, only tko by injury.

 

However Jack in 6 oz gloves outdoors in full sun in mid America on 4th of July would prove impossible to beat.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

I have to pick Dempsey. He's one of the most underrated boxers of all time. People think he's small and outdated, but that's because we only have poor footage of him. He crumpled Willard in the first round, who outweighed him by about 80 pounds! I think the Klitschkos would have a nightmare trying to fight him.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

I have to pick Dempsey. He's one of the most underrated boxers of all time. People think he's small and outdated, but that's because we only have poor footage of him. He crumpled Willard in the first round, who outweighed him by about 80 pounds! I think the Klitschkos would have a nightmare trying to fight him.

I don't think you can compare Willard to Vitali. Jess hadn't fought in three and a half years when he fought Jack and looks out of shape on the film (also he doesn't have to go to a neutral corner so clobbers Willard every time he starts to get up!). It's difficult to judge how good Dempsey was. The footage shows a fast and powerful fighter but the stain of avoiding all the top black fighters of his era has never left him. For money Vitali beats him quickly and easily.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

--- Jack loved KO big heavies and Vitali of course feasted on smaller heavies.

 

Each would be the greatest and toughest heavy they ever faced. I give the edge to Vitali because he can't be KO, only tko by injury.

 

However Jack in 6 oz gloves outdoors in full sun in mid America on 4th of July would prove impossible to beat.

 

Everyone can be knocked out, no one is superhuman. Also no matter what size gloves, what weather, and what date, NO ONE is impossible to beat.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

I don't think you can compare Willard to Vitali. Jess hadn't fought in three and a half years when he fought Jack and looks out of shape on the film (also he doesn't have to go to a neutral corner so clobbers Willard every time he starts to get up!). It's difficult to judge how good Dempsey was. The footage shows a fast and powerful fighter but the stain of avoiding all the top black fighters of his era has never left him. For money Vitali beats him quickly and easily.

To be fair to Jack, he did not avoid them, it was the establishment not wanting a black champ that caused this to happen, plus his own manager. Dempsey actually wanted to fight them.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

I don't think you can compare Willard to Vitali. Jess hadn't fought in three and a half years when he fought Jack and looks out of shape on the film (also he doesn't have to go to a neutral corner so clobbers Willard every time he starts to get up!). It's difficult to judge how good Dempsey was. The footage shows a fast and powerful fighter but the stain of avoiding all the top black fighters of his era has never left him. For money Vitali beats him quickly and easily.

 

--- Three points Rob:

 

1 Neutral corner rule wasn't in play until the 2nd Tunney fight.

 

2 The only legit black contender for Dempsey was Wills and Jack signed twice to fight but the national politics and thus the money wouldn't support the fight.

 

3 Nobody easily beats Dempsey.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

--- Three points Rob:

 

1 Neutral corner rule wasn't in play until the 2nd Tunney fight.

 

2 The only legit black contender for Dempsey was Wills and Jack signed twice to fight but the national politics and thus the money wouldn't support the fight.

 

3 Nobody easily beats Dempsey.

1. I'm aware the neutral corner rule wasn't in effect (I could have mentioned the alleged loaded gloves if I'd wanted to imply any cheating on Dempsey's part).

 

2. Dempsey was around the same time as Sam Langford, Joe Jeanette, Sam McVea and others. Clever management ensured he never went anywhere near them before his title days. It's a convenient excuse to say his promoter and manager wouldn't let him fight Wills.

 

3. Apart from the "long count" Tunney beat him clearly and Wille Meehan beat him clearly according to contemporary accounts.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

--- Willie beat Sam as well as plenty others in 4 rd shipyard fights where he could survive and take his home cooked decisions.

 

Sam, Jeannette, and mcvey were not relevant when Jack elevated to contender, mcvey passing away around this time. Jack did fight a few black fighters coming up but nobody cared since he was nobody back then.

 

Most of his sparring partners were black and Bill Tate was a personal friend who he took to Hollywood during his exile.

 

Say what you will, but he, Jeffries, and Fitz were quite open to black fighters. It don't fit the mythology of modern revisionism, but it's part of the historical record nonetheless.

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

Where do you guys stand on this epic heavyweight matchup?

 

Vitaly without building his body up with gear? (Self-confessed in bio and tested +ve in 1996). Or Dempsey with?

 

On a level playing field - Dempsey all day long. :thumb:

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

I think that Vitali at his prime (1999-2005) was a very exciting boxer with devastating punches. :ranger:But when he came back he adopted an "Olympic Soviet" style and he became boring.What a pity!Anyway,I am convinced that he would be difficult to beat for the great champions of the past.:whistle:

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

Vitaly without building his body up with gear? (Self-confessed in bio and tested +ve in 1996). Or Dempsey with?

 

On a level playing field - Dempsey all day long. :thumb:

So all Vitali's win's should be declared no contests then? Holyfield is often labled a steroid cheat, even though he never tested positive, and was clearly only trying to bulk up from lightheavy/cruiser to heavy, and still was only 14st 10lbs or there abouts. Vitali was already a giant, and he needed even more advantage? He has lost my respect. Ben Johnson was stripped of his Olympic records, after the event, why not Vitali?

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Re: Jack Dempsey vs. Vitali Klitschko

 

So all Vitali's win's should be declared no contests then?

 

In my opinion, yes. Although his supporters will say he tested -ve after his fights so why should he? You would have to be a complete chump to test +ve after a fight or at the Olympics, although it does happen, (Peterson etc) . You've built yourself up already off-season.

 

If you have cheated to turn yourself into a super-heavyweight monster for years on end (Wlad, Vitaly to name but 2), off-season and then tested -ve after fights dont kid anyone, you are still cheating. The lax testing systems boxing has in place lend themselves (deliberately, I say) to give the impression everything in the garden is rosy when it obviously is not. Testing needs to be 24/7, 365 days a year, unannounced, with boxers maintaining a blood passport system too. Never ever happen though - its too big a can of worms.

 

miscellaneous-worms-can-tin-opening_a_can_of_worms-opening-jfa2492_low.jpg

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