‘POUND FOR POUND’ LIST NOT TOPPED BY PACQUIAO

[edsel77x]

By Kevin Perry

 

Los Angeles, CA- The ‘pound for pound’ term which is overly referenced in today’s boxing landscape is sans question a subjective term. Originally the aforementioned term was coined because universally recognized ‘pound for pound’ greatest pugilist of all-time, former welterweight (147 lbs) and middleweight (160) king “Sugar Ray” Robinson ( 173-19-6,108 KOs) obviously was the best fighter of his day, so this saying was created to reward him for his greatness. In the opinion of many and Wikipedia, ‘pound for pound’ is “An attempt to determine who would win if all those ranked were the same size.” Keeping it real, this is the only criteria that ‘pound for pound’ should be based on.

 

HOW HE FIGHTS & WHO HE FIGHTS

 

Quality of opposition is extremely important and variety of opponents faced. Especially in determining the quality of a said fighters skills, because the variety shows how they perform against different skill sets and ranges of opponents of varying physicality’s. Based on the definition in Wikipedia, and the fact that most of determining who is the best in the sport is based on overall skills first, then quality of opposition second, you can make an argument for several fighters reaching the top of the totem pole. Instead of stating who is the best fighter, maybe a list of the “best fighters” is a more accurate assessment. In reality, no fighter today that laces up the gloves is even in the same stratosphere as Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran, who all held the mythical title, thus just being considered as one of the best currently should be enough. For arguments sake only, here’s the top ten ‘pound for pound’ fighters in boxing.

 

1. Nonito Donaire-(28-1, 18 KOs)- Being in the lower weight classes (118) puts him at a disadvantage in the ‘pound for pound’ argument. The lack of name recognition of most fighters below featherweight (126) doesn’t change the fact that two of the top fighters in the lower divisions of the last decade, Vic Darchinyan (28-0, 24 KOs at the time) and Fernando Montiel (44-2-2, 33 whacks at the time), were both stopped viciously by Donaire. If he was in a higher weight class such as middleweight this would be a no-brainer.

 

2. Manny Paquiao (52-3-2, 38 KOs) (147)- His resume of the last several years speaks for itself. Although his recent choice of foes have been less than stellar, Manny is still Manny.

3. Floyd Mayweather(41-0, 25 KOs) (147)- He’s not rated #3 based on his inactivity. He is only number three because of his reluctance to face opponents who have advantages over him, and his unwillingness to take risks with his selection of opponents. Trying to sell his besting of Juan Manuel Marquez (a career featherweight) as a legitimate foe is disengeuous. His overall body of work is something to behold, and thus you could put him higher, I just don’t hold undefeated records with a lot of esteem when you’re fighting no-hopers.

4. Sergio Martinez (47-2-2, 26 KOs) (160)- The Argentine World middleweight (160) is very good, but his body of work lacks just a little in comparison to the other three. If he can clean house at 160 and then fight effectively at 168, he can make his case in moving himself up a notch or two.

 

5. Bernard Hopkins (51-5-2, 32 KOs) (175)-Skills, longevity and quality of opposition get him this slot. His boxing IQ makes you think he’d be a nightmare for any fighter in a mythical sense. Still, with the exception of a couple of contests, he can induce drowsiness if not sleep.

 

6. Juan Manuel Marquez (52-5-1, 38 KOs) (135)- Skilled technician who would probably be higher if he hadn’t struggled early against gutsy, but ordinary brawler Michael Katsidis. Maybe his age (37) and fighting at the advanced weight is effecting him, but for some reason I can’t get the image of him getting rocked out of my mind. His biggest flaw is he sometimes leaves himself open when he gets overly aggressive.

 

7. Andre Ward (23-0, 13 KOs) (168)-All around skills make him the 168 lb. king. Can fight southpaw or orthodox. Then you must consider the ease at which he beat Mikkel Kessler (42-1, 31 KOs at the time), and how he beat the rugged Sakio Bika (28-5-2, 19 KOs) at his own game. If only Andre had an inclination to step in behind his punch, he’d be the complete package. Might appear to be too high, but this list isn’t all about body of work but what the fighter has produced in their fights and overall skills.

 

8. Tim Bradley (27-0, 11 KOs) (140)- Good all around fighter. Doesn’t do anything spectacular, but is really effective and willing to fight the best fighters out there.

 

9. Wladimir Klitschko (55-3, 49 KOs) (200+) – I don’t like to rank heavyweights, but this guy’s earned it. Although he’s a massive specimen 6′7′ 250, he possesses a tremendous skill set coupled with discipline, and hypothetically would be a champion in any weight class. His current body of work, although against a slew of inferior foes is still quite impressive considering he’s stopped nine of his last 10 opponents, all in title defenses.

 

10. Carl Froch (27-1, 20 KOs)(168)- If there was ever a time to give a fighter recognition for quality of opposition now is the time. He is in the mold of a fighter that fans love. Other pugs cherry-pick opposition (Manny & Floyd to name two). He’s battled the likes of Arthur Abraham (31-1 at the time), Mikkel Kessler (42-2, at the time), Andre Dirrell (18-0, at the time), Jermain Taylor (28-2-1, at the time), and Jean Pascal (21-0, at the time) all in succession. That is probably the toughest five fight schedule, not just in boxing but arguably in all of sports with his only loss versus Kessler. His next contest will be in the “Super Six” tourney semifinal against Glen Johnson (51-14-2, 35 KOs) which is no easy task.

 

http://ringtalk.com/nonito-donaire-manny-pacquiao-sugar-ray-robinson-ali-joe-louis#more-15507

[gavpowell]

Re: ‘POUND FOR POUND’ LIST NOT TOPPED BY PACQUIAO

 

Froch. He’s battled the likes of Arthur Abraham (31-1 at the time), Mikkel Kessler (42-2, at the time), Andre Dirrell (18-0, at the time), Jermain Taylor (28-2-1, at the time), and Jean Pascal (21-0, at the time) all in succession. That is probably the toughest five fight schedule, not just in boxing but arguably in all of sports with his only loss versus Kessler. His next contest will be in the “Super Six” tourney semifinal against Glen Johnson (51-14-2, 35 KOs) which is no easy task.

 

 

Dirrell made him look stupid, Abraham and Taylor were middleweights and Kessler beat him. I love Froch to bits and it's not a bad CV by any means, but it really isn't pound-for-pound quality.

 

And how Ward even makes the list, much less number 7, is puzzling in the extreme.

[grapevine241]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

[WelshDevilRob]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

 

Has Donaires opposition been bad?

 

Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthlane, Tyson Marquez and Sydorenko before beating Montiel. Mthlane and Marquez both went onto win titles afterwards. Thats a decent list and throw in the undefeated Martinez and former champ Vargas and it makes good reading to me.

[grapevine241]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

 

Has Donaires opposition been bad?

 

Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthlane, Tyson Marquez and Sydorenko before beating Montiel. Mthlane and Marquez both went onto win titles afterwards. Thats a decent list and throw in the undefeated Martinez and former champ Vargas and it makes good reading to me.

 

i mean sub-par when compared to the fighters that could be above him on the P4P list. but i agree that some of his opponents are actually better than they were thought of when donaire fought them

[iamasadlittleboy]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

 

Has Donaires opposition been bad?

 

Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthlane, Tyson Marquez and Sydorenko before beating Montiel. Mthlane and Marquez both went onto win titles afterwards. Thats a decent list and throw in the undefeated Martinez and former champ Vargas and it makes good reading to me.

 

Marquez went up a division, Maldonado was 2 years removed from a meaningful win and I'm still not sold on Marquez...Martinez was 21 months removed from making 112 and then made to come back down, Vargas was still making miniweight...

[Siren1927]

If you swapped Donaire with Martinez I would agree with that list

[WelshDevilRob]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

 

Has Donaires opposition been bad?

 

Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthlane, Tyson Marquez and Sydorenko before beating Montiel. Mthlane and Marquez both went onto win titles afterwards. Thats a decent list and throw in the undefeated Martinez and former champ Vargas and it makes good reading to me.

 

Marquez went up a division, Maldonado was 2 years removed from a meaningful win and I'm still not sold on Marquez...Martinez was 21 months removed from making 112 and then made to come back down, Vargas was still making miniweight...

 

But still decent fighters and in these weight divisions a good shit can get you down a weight.

[iamasadlittleboy]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

 

Has Donaires opposition been bad?

 

Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthlane, Tyson Marquez and Sydorenko before beating Montiel. Mthlane and Marquez both went onto win titles afterwards. Thats a decent list and throw in the undefeated Martinez and former champ Vargas and it makes good reading to me.

 

Marquez went up a division, Maldonado was 2 years removed from a meaningful win and I'm still not sold on Marquez...Martinez was 21 months removed from making 112 and then made to come back down, Vargas was still making miniweight...

 

But still decent fighters and in these weight divisions a good shit can get you down a weight.

 

A weight not 3 (Vargas)...do those wins (dating back to 2007) really beat Pacquiao's wins in he same time? (Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Margarito) or Bradley's? (Vazquez, Witter, Cherry, Holt, Peterson, Alexander) or Lopez's? (R. Marquez, Concepcion, Luevano, Penalosa, Medina, Ponce), or Gamboa? (who with Barros, Solis, Salido in his last 3 deserves a mention)

[WelshDevilRob]

yeah i cant see how anyone has froch in their top 10 P4P. ward is also puzzling.

 

donaire doesnt make sense at #1. yes he beat the very highly regarded montiel but thats one win after a long stretch of sub-par opposition.

 

the rest is more or less okay, id have a different order.

 

Has Donaires opposition been bad?

 

Darchinyan, Maldonado, Mthlane, Tyson Marquez and Sydorenko before beating Montiel. Mthlane and Marquez both went onto win titles afterwards. Thats a decent list and throw in the undefeated Martinez and former champ Vargas and it makes good reading to me.

 

Marquez went up a division, Maldonado was 2 years removed from a meaningful win and I'm still not sold on Marquez...Martinez was 21 months removed from making 112 and then made to come back down, Vargas was still making miniweight...

 

But still decent fighters and in these weight divisions a good shit can get you down a weight.

 

A weight not 3 (Vargas)...do those wins (dating back to 2007) really beat Pacquiao's wins in he same time? (Barrera, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton, Cotto and Margarito) or Bradley's? (Vazquez, Witter, Cherry, Holt, Peterson, Alexander) or Lopez's? (R. Marquez, Concepcion, Luevano, Penalosa, Medina, Ponce), or Gamboa? (who with Barros, Solis, Salido in his last 3 deserves a mention)

 

I haven't said he's had better opposition that Pacquiao and in the recent list I posted Manny was No.1 followed by Donaire.

Montiel is better than anyone on Bradleys record and I'd say Lopez's and Gamboa's aswell. The Montiel win was better than Manny's over Barrera, Diaz, Hatton and Margarito.

 

I'll stick with my opinion that Donaires opposition has been decent.

[iamasadlittleboy]

I'd go with decent, but not great. Take Montiel and Darchinyan out and Donaire's opponents would only be "decent" imo right through.

[Donkeywater]

What the f*ck is Wladimir Klitschko doing on that list? He certainly doesn't have the skills and the level of opposition he has faced doesn't warrant a place amongst the top 10 pound for pound.

 

Like Gav, I agree that there is a lot to admire about Froch and there's nothing wrong with the level of opposition he's been facing. However, ability wise, I don't think he should be up there.

[grapevine241]

What the f*ck is Wladimir Klitschko doing on that list? He certainly doesn't have the skills and the level of opposition he has faced doesn't warrant a place amongst the top 10 pound for pound.

 

Like Gav, I agree that there is a lot to admire about Froch and there's nothing wrong with the level of opposition he's been facing. However, ability wise, I don't think he should be up there.

 

i never rank heavyweights P4P, but i suppose wlad is there and on other lists for consistently dominating the best available opponents.

 

I'd go with decent, but not great. Take Montiel and Darchinyan out and Donaire's opponents would only be "decent" imo right through.

 

well said