edsel77x Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Is it too early to Crown him King? Is he not yet worthy of the accolades that many has already bestowed on him. Should his greatness be due in large part for what he has done inside the ring? Outside the Ring? Or Both? Is he greater that Ali? Well, despite what they say and how they feel; I think that when it is all said and done, He will have superseded anything that Ali has done and more. Manny for President, for Greatest, for Most Exciting Fighter..., okay so maybe an exaggeration for most exciting. There are a few that "could" share that distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Robinson, Greb, Armstrong all deserve better placing than either of those mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 if you're talking about outside the ring... ali is definitely greater. muhammad ali is still perhaps the most famous athlete on the planet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 even inside the ring, Ali's record and skills were both better than Pacquiao's are, but Ali was more extraordinary for being a heavyweight. The skills he showed in the Williams fight were reminiscent of Robinson and foreshadowed Leonard. Not knowing much about Pacquiao's opposition and achievements pre-Barrera, I couldn't confirm him as a modern great, but a couple more wins against prime opposition could tip the scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 ali has much greater allround skills than Manny. Both Great fighters but Ali gets my votes on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skav Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ali had a lot of questionable wins, including the win over Earnie Shavers in which he was battered all over the place. But there's no question that he fought everybody available, and the Mayweather fight will hurt both him and Floyd until they face one another because that fight is an example of two of the best going at it like Ali did.....a number of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ali had a lot of questionable wins, including the win over Earnie Shavers in which he was battered all over the place. But there's no question that he fought everybody available, and the Mayweather fight will hurt both him and Floyd until they face one another because that fight is an example of two of the best going at it like Ali did.....a number of times. Yeah the 3 Norton fights (how he managed to get 2 wins there god only knows) Doug Jones was apparently hard done by as well (never seen the fight but the reporters apparently favoured Jones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Ali had a lot of questionable wins, including the win over Earnie Shavers in which he was battered all over the place. But there's no question that he fought everybody available, and the Mayweather fight will hurt both him and Floyd until they face one another because that fight is an example of two of the best going at it like Ali did.....a number of times. There are some questionable wins, I can't comment on the Shavers fight as I haven't seen that one though more controversy seems to be around the Norton fights as Scott said. I need to watch more fights of old as sometimes they could be clearcut or the underdog got scored for as he pushed the Icon close. Apart from the Doug Jones fight - Ali or Clay as he was then was pretty flawless while still learning, in his early title reign. I think with many boxers - the distraction of celebrity and the attractions can distract fighters and I think alot of that happened in Ali's 2nd career along with diminishing skills. Best vs best and I call it for Ali and I am a Manny supporter. On a side note: Would you, Scott, DonLevy and a few others be interested in doing scorecards on older historical fights that are deemed controversial or close? One week do Holmes vs Norton, Ali vs Shavers and of course the Ali vs Norton fights. See how we all score those fights now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Possibly, I'm on limited internet at the moment sadly so I'm limited to only watching live streams :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Possibly, I'm on limited internet at the moment sadly so I'm limited to only watching live streams :( I'm on someone elses internet (the beauty of wireless grin// ) Got most of the fights on the ex HDD - just need to watch them. If I had a DVD writer I'd send them to you. The thing with the older fights is the size is normally quite small and the quality decent so maybe worth seeing if you can get one a week downloaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skav Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Ali had a lot of questionable wins, including the win over Earnie Shavers in which he was battered all over the place. But there's no question that he fought everybody available, and the Mayweather fight will hurt both him and Floyd until they face one another because that fight is an example of two of the best going at it like Ali did.....a number of times. There are some questionable wins, I can't comment on the Shavers fight as I haven't seen that one though more controversy seems to be around the Norton fights as Scott said. I need to watch more fights of old as sometimes they could be clearcut or the underdog got scored for as he pushed the Icon close. Apart from the Doug Jones fight - Ali or Clay as he was then was pretty flawless while still learning, in his early title reign. I think with many boxers - the distraction of celebrity and the attractions can distract fighters and I think alot of that happened in Ali's 2nd career along with diminishing skills. Best vs best and I call it for Ali and I am a Manny supporter. On a side note: Would you, Scott, DonLevy and a few others be interested in doing scorecards on older historical fights that are deemed controversial or close? One week do Holmes vs Norton, Ali vs Shavers and of course the Ali vs Norton fights. See how we all score those fights now. I don't mind, mate, but as Scott said this may be difficult for others if they don't have the fights at hand or they have trouble obtaining them online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBride Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Are people seriously insulting Ali these days to such an extent that they would compare a nonentity like Pakow to the great man? Why not go the whole hog and say your glad hes got Parkinsons syndrome if your that sick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edsel77x Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Ali was before my time. What I am witnessing is nothing short of greatness. However we will have to wait for him to retire to or die for us to call him The Greatest. Or at least I will. I am not glad that some one is suffering from such a horrible sickness. That's not funny McBride. I know what you meant but that comment was a little too much. Its my opinion. It would be my personal view and yes you could call it an assertion, to say (think, feel) that Pacman has achieved more in the ring than Ali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapevine241 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 its always tough to compare one division fighters like ali with weight jumpers like pacquiao. i think a case could be made that pacquiao has achieved more in the ring than ali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edsel77x Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Yeah, it just boils down to a matter bias opinions and arguing futilely until we are blue in the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBride Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Ali was before my time. What I am witnessing is nothing short of greatness. However we will have to wait for him to retire to or die for us to call him The Greatest. Or at least I will. I am not glad that some one is suffering from such a horrible sickness. That's not funny McBride. I know what you meant but that comment was a little too much. Its my opinion. It would be my personal view and yes you could call it an assertion, to say (think, feel) that Pacman has achieved more in the ring than Ali. It wasn't meant to be funny, it was meant to offend people who even dream that the nothing extraordinary, paper title chasing Pakow is in any way comparable to Ali. Try looking at the older tapes of Ali, before the racist US government forced him into retirement for 3 and a half years. The world had never seen a 6' 3" 200lbs plus guy with the kind of footwork, that Pakow can only dream about. A big guy that was so naturally gifted he did everything differently from text book boxing. Thats why hundreds of fighters from all weight divisions have tried to copy him ever since. If you want to try to claim Pakows paper titles are genuine, lets be really fucking stupid and say Leonard actually was a Light Heavyweight world champion. After all its just as laughable. As for out of the ring comparisons, now lets see. Pakow has been elected as some sort of insignificant politician in the Phillipines, well fucking whoopee. Ali has been some humanitarian bod for the UN, been sent to Muslim countries to try to get hostages freed, was, and probably still is the most recognised human being on the planet even by people who know nothing, and care even less about boxing. Next comparison please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edsel77x Posted February 20, 2011 Author Share Posted February 20, 2011 Great to know all these things. As I said before, Ali was before my time. So there lots of things I did not know of him. What I did know was that he was a great Humanitarian. My bias opinion is just that. Thanks for the info, seriously. Outside of the ring, no comparison, I concede. Inside the ring, paper titles aside, I have yet to really devote time to the life and career of Ali. So, in saying that. I do not have a grounded argument for the question I asked in regards to greatest. So, again, I concede. Until.... further review. You are such an affable (in your own way) character McBride drink: I wasn't being sarcastic either. As much as your words sometimes sting, you are right 65% of the times. That's more then half!!! The other 35% is Mayweather ranting and that 35% is rubbish, nonsense, and claptrap. mlol/ I nonetheless appreciate the boxing lessons you give. Have a drink on me oldtimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBride Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 I'd love to have a drink with you, much less on you edsel, but logistics prevent that. I gurantee you that when you do get round to watching early Ali, you will be as mesmerised as we were at the time. It still defies boxing logic, some of the things he did in a ring even nearly 50 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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