Jump to content

Haye-Chagaev in the works


WelshDevilRob
 Share

Recommended Posts

Haye-Chagaev in the works

 

WBA heavyweight champion David Haye will now taken aim at mandatory challenger Ruslan Chagaev after a proposed fight against IBF/WBO heavyweight champion Wladimir Klitschko imploded due a conflict over television dates. “The Klitschko situation is dead,” Haye’s manager Adam Booth told The Sun tabloid. “I have asked Chagaev’s manager to supply medical records.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 84
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Good. I have really gone off of Haye now. I have never really been a "fan" as such but i can now say he's the new "Prince Naseem" in my eyes: All mouth and no record. Had he fought the level of competition the Klitschkos had fought there's no way he'd only have 1 loss on his record. This is the point: Had he fought for 15 years and fought every opponent out there and fought them twice, he would have more than 1 loss. This is why i disapprove of him trying to secure his legacy on the back of two fights. He should be forced to fight everyone the way the Klitschkos have.

 

I wrote a much longer piece on this thread: http://budweiserboxing.forumcircle.com/viewtopic.php?t=7962

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When RA the rugged man and Floyd Mayweather jr had their little argument on air, RA said he had ducked all the big names etc and his legacy was going to be hurt by it. Floyd replied: "All these guys are fighting each other and losing. None of them are undefeated".

 

RA the rugged man replied: "When cats fight, they lose! When you fight EVERYBODY, you lose! It's simple".

 

That is 100% true. No boxer in history has fought EVERYBODY and not lost. Marciano fought nothing but old men who were previous light heavyweights, Joe Calzaghe had a dozen other good/great fighters around him that he never fought and Finito Lopez, check out his record. A lot of guys around those smaller weight classes are hardly p4p legends. Finito Lopez: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=521&cat=boxer

 

Had Haye fought everybody, the way the Klitschkos have done and continue to do, he'd have lost a lot more than he has done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When RA the rugged man and Floyd Mayweather jr had their little argument on air, RA said he had ducked all the big names etc and his legacy was going to be hurt by it. Floyd replied: "All these guys are fighting each other and losing. None of them are undefeated".

 

RA the rugged man replied: "When cats fight, they lose! When you fight EVERYBODY, you lose! It's simple".

 

That is 100% true. No boxer in history has fought EVERYBODY and not lost. Marciano fought nothing but old men who were previous light heavyweights, Joe Calzaghe had a dozen other good/great fighters around him that he never fought and Finito Lopez, check out his record. A lot of guys around those smaller weight classes are hardly p4p legends. Finito Lopez: http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=521&cat=boxer

 

Had Haye fought everybody, the way the Klitschkos have done and continue to do, he'd have lost a lot more than he has done.

 

"Marciano fought nothing but old men who were previous light heavyweights"

Most of Marcianos best opponents weighed more than he did. He averaged around 185lbs.

 

"Joe Calzaghe had a dozen other good/great fighters around him that he never fought"

That is true but that doesn't mean he didn't try to make the fights. RJJ was never an option. Ottke, Bhop and Beyer all turned down fights with JC.

 

Lopez is not someone I'm overly familiar with, so shall leave that to someone else.

 

Haye fought everyone he could have at Cruiserweight except Steve Cunningham. Cunningham was only champion cos O'Neill Bell got stripped of the IBF.

The weight issue was what caused Haye to move up not lack of ambition or being unwilling to clear out the division.

 

Also, Klitschko hadn't fought everyone he could have there are plenty of names missing off the resume. You can't count fighters like Botha, Mercer and Rahman as proper defences cos those guys were washed up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haye fought everyone he could have at Cruiserweight except Steve Cunningham. Cunningham was only champion cos O'Neill Bell got stripped of the IBF.

The weight issue was what caused Haye to move up not lack of ambition or being unwilling to clear out the division.

 

I disagree to some extent.

Haye only fought one good cruiserweight in Mormeck, and a decent one in Maccarinelli.

Look at the Ring rankings around the time and you'll see a pretty gaping hole.

He never cleared out the division by any means, but I still have no problem with his "snatch and grab" effort of securing 3 belts in his last 2 cruiserweight fights.

He was meant to be moving on to bigger and better things, and it's unfortunate that things haven't worked out that way....

As for the weight issue, he said immediately after beating Maccarinelli, that he had no problem making cruiserweight, and looking at what he weighs in at as a heavyweight, having bulked up a fair amount, I think you'd be hard pushed to see any realistic weight problem there.

It's another one of those "Haye myths."

 

I've still not given up on the guy, but his words would have you believe he's had a better career than he actually has.

He may well have the ability, but he simply hasn't delivered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"Marciano fought nothing but old men who were previous light heavyweights"

Most of Marcianos best opponents weighed more than he did. He averaged around 185lbs.

 

It's true Marciano was outweighed by many of his opponents (i didn't realise quite how many though, just rechecked), but he was famous for being a small HW. It isn't any different to Haye weighing in 30lbs less than an opponent today. On top of that he had a solid jaw.

 

It doesn't remove the fact that the majority of his big wins were against guys who were light heavyweight legends many years earlier.

 

Of his biggest wins, only Roland LaStarza hadn't started out as a light heavyweight.

 

And of those light heavyweights, they were long past their prime:

 

- Jersey Joe Walcott: 39

- Archie Moore: 39

- Joe Louis: 37

- Ezzard Charles: 33

 

It was Joe Louis' last bout and Joe Walcott's last two bouts.

 

Don Cockell was 26, so he was in his prime. He had a lot of bouts in a short period of time though. Harry Matthews was 29.

 

My point was mainly just to say that Marciano's major wins were against guys who's prime were the 1930s and 1940s where they were the Kings at light heavyweight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haye fought everyone he could have at Cruiserweight except Steve Cunningham. Cunningham was only champion cos O'Neill Bell got stripped of the IBF.

The weight issue was what caused Haye to move up not lack of ambition or being unwilling to clear out the division.

 

I disagree to some extent.

Haye only fought one good cruiserweight in Mormeck, and a decent one in Maccarinelli.

Look at the Ring rankings around the time and you'll see a pretty gaping hole.

He never cleared out the division by any means, but I still have no problem with his "snatch and grab" effort of securing 3 belts in his last 2 cruiserweight fights.

He was meant to be moving on to bigger and better things, and it's unfortunate that things haven't worked out that way....

As for the weight issue, he said immediately after beating Maccarinelli, that he had no problem making cruiserweight, and looking at what he weighs in at as a heavyweight, having bulked up a fair amount, I think you'd be hard pushed to see any realistic weight problem there.

It's another one of those "Haye myths."

 

I've still not given up on the guy, but his words would have you believe he's had a better career than he actually has.

He may well have the ability, but he simply hasn't delivered.

 

I do think he needs a reality check regarding what he's done. I give him alot of credit for hanging on in the Cruisers due to the weight issues.

I don't blame him for not meeting Cunningham and Adamek as those guys were passing the belt around.

 

I disagree with you regarding the weight - Haye said after the Maccarinelli fight that he made the weight because he stayed constantly in training from after the Mormeck bout to enable him to keep the weight down. Which is very plausible but very hard to continuously train for years on end.

Getting down in weight is one thing De La Hoya did it for Pacquiao but getting the weight down and being at your strongest are two different things. Haye it seems is more comfortable at a higher weight than the 200lbs limit (which he weighed above for 2 fights earlier in his career)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Klitschko hadn't fought everyone he could have there are plenty of names missing off the resume. You can't count fighters like Botha, Mercer and Rahman as proper defences cos those guys were washed up.

 

Who haven't they fought? I don't mean that to sound sarcastic, LOL. I just mean i can't see it. The only guys i can think of are Holyfield, Tyson, Rahman (Vitali hasn't fought him), Valuev.

 

But, Holyfield, Tyson and Rahman were washed up and the latter only got a win over Lewis from a puncher's chance punch. And both brothers would beat Valuev.

 

They're already lining up Chisora, Adamek, Austin and Solis for 2011. After that, there's only another handful of opponents out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wlad hasnt really fought a prime legit contender ever has he?

 

Is that sarcastic or do you really believe that?

 

Brock

Peter

Chageav

 

They arent that good.

 

In retrospect after Wlad beat them.

Fact is they were being championed at the time, and all 3 were unbeaten until they came up against the Klits.

I'm not going to bother defending Wlad too much, because I've never been a huge fan of his, but the above statement is a nonsense imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wlad hasnt really fought a prime legit contender ever has he?

 

Is that sarcastic or do you really believe that?

 

Brock

Peter

Chageav

 

They arent that good.

 

In retrospect after Wlad beat them.

Fact is they were being championed at the time, and all 3 were unbeaten until they came up against the Klits.

I'm not going to bother defending Wlad too much, because I've never been a huge fan of his, but the above statement is a nonsense imo.

 

I was never sold on them, all slow and mediocre, like most in last 5 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"Marciano fought nothing but old men who were previous light heavyweights"

Most of Marcianos best opponents weighed more than he did. He averaged around 185lbs.

 

It's true Marciano was outweighed by many of his opponents (i didn't realise quite how many though, just rechecked), but he was famous for being a small HW. It isn't any different to Haye weighing in 30lbs less than an opponent today. On top of that he had a solid jaw.

 

It doesn't remove the fact that the majority of his big wins were against guys who were light heavyweight legends many years earlier.

 

Of his biggest wins, only Roland LaStarza hadn't started out as a light heavyweight.

 

And of those light heavyweights, they were long past their prime:

 

- Jersey Joe Walcott: 39

- Archie Moore: 39

- Joe Louis: 37

- Ezzard Charles: 33

 

It was Joe Louis' last bout and Joe Walcott's last two bouts.

 

Don Cockell was 26, so he was in his prime. He had a lot of bouts in a short period of time though. Harry Matthews was 29.

 

My point was mainly just to say that Marciano's major wins were against guys who's prime were the 1930s and 1940s where they were the Kings at light heavyweight.

 

Ryan, I agree with you and as proof here is a Poll I posted: Lennox Lewis vs Rocky Marciano - Who wins?

 

The topic got 409 replies and 8398 views.

 

If you have the time you will see I am highly critical of Marciano (If abit OTT as the same guy I argued/debated with got banned about 20 times and kept creating new accounts to carry on the debate lol)

http://boxingbanter.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8524&hilit=Marciano

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wlad hasnt really fought a prime legit contender ever has he?

 

Is that sarcastic or do you really believe that?

 

Brock

Peter

Chageav

 

They arent that good.

 

In retrospect after Wlad beat them.

Fact is they were being championed at the time, and all 3 were unbeaten until they came up against the Klits.

I'm not going to bother defending Wlad too much, because I've never been a huge fan of his, but the above statement is a nonsense imo.

 

I was never sold on them, all slow and mediocre, like most in last 5 years.

 

Brock is one of Wlads better defenses but he was no great shake.

 

Chagaev was quite clearly not the man that outpointed Valuev due to his well documented illness and time away from boxing.

 

Peter was decent and a good win. Peter is awfully slow, a bad trainer and erratic but dangerous.

 

For me Eddie Chambers is Wlads best win and he was much the smaller man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said though, I'm not going to defend Wlad too much.

He is either the victim or the main beneficiary of a period in heavyweight boxing where there have been so very few fighters who were all that good.

None of this is his fault, and I only think the statement that he has "never fought a legitimate prime contender" is a huge exaggeration.

Plenty of his opponents have been legitimate contenders and in their primes, but it doesn't mean they were world beaters either.

 

Outside of the Klits, noone really has been in the past few years.

 

The "prime" age for the current crop of heavyweights is debatable also because very few have found success in their early to mid 20's, which is the token prime of most other divisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Ryan, I agree with you and as proof here is a Poll I posted: Lennox Lewis vs Rocky Marciano - Who wins?

 

The topic got 409 replies and 8398 views.

 

If you have the time you will see I am highly critical of Marciano (If abit OTT as the same guy I argued/debated with got banned about 20 times and kept creating new accounts to carry on the debate lol)

http://boxingbanter.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8524&hilit=Marciano

 

That guy wouldn't give up LOL. He was still arguing on about page 26.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Ryan, I agree with you and as proof here is a Poll I posted: Lennox Lewis vs Rocky Marciano - Who wins?

 

The topic got 409 replies and 8398 views.

 

If you have the time you will see I am highly critical of Marciano (If abit OTT as the same guy I argued/debated with got banned about 20 times and kept creating new accounts to carry on the debate lol)

http://boxingbanter.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8524&hilit=Marciano

 

That guy wouldn't give up LOL. He was still arguing on about page 26.

 

LOL I remember that :-D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share




×
×
  • Create New...