Pacquiao vs Mayweather @ 130lb~The Forgotten Matchup

[LondonRingRules]

I just haven't been sold on Mayweather as a Welterweight. I think he's one of the top 130-pounders of all time

 

--- Well, Dave, this match is for you.

 

Floydy's last two fights at 130 were in 2001 where he was pressured greatly by Carlos Hernandez and Jesus Chavez. Chavez in particular swamped him volume punching. He was kept him in reverse mostly for both fights. Then he moved to lightweight in 2002 with memorable bouts against JCCastillo, again mostly kept in reverse by the power punching Castillo as Floydy looked distinctly beat in their first fight. He turned 25 before his move up lightweight fights.

 

By your comments, I assume you think Floydy was in his prime years here, so let's look at Manny.

 

His last two bouts at 130 in 2007-2008 in between turning 29 years old against Barrera and the JMMarquez rematch. Then he moved to lightweight 2008 for a beatdown of David Diaz and then straight up to welter for a beat down on Oscar. Goes without saying that Manny's comp is infinitely better than Floydy's at this juncture with 3 HOFers spanning 4 weight classes.

 

Maybe not a fair fight since Manny's distinctly more mature at a very high point in his career, but then again this comes from 3rd world discipline of having to make very low weights to compete, so Manny was able to compete longer at the lower divisions. When Floydy turned 29 it was between his welter debut with Mitchell and then Judah. Mitchell a flashy southpaw for reference, but well past his best was reasonably dispatched, but the diminished southpaw version of Judah gave him all kinds of problems, causing Uncle Roger to suffer major meltdown which 99% of the times loses the fight for Floydy but for being propped up by his other Uncle Bob.

 

Naturally I take Manny to do a blitz on Floydy if he shows to fight. If he shows to stink, well, depends on whose pockets were filled by Sugar Daddy before the fight, ie Arum. We know Arum never liked having to bail out Floydy from numerous legal problems and his being unavailable when big matches were proposed whereas he's made Manny his adopted son.

 

Thus, as I might have predicted by my seat of the pants feel of timelines, I pick Manny in not much of a contest for either scenarios, but what sayeth you and others?

 

Can you or anyone make a credible case for a 25 year old Floydy against a 29 yr old Manny or a straight up 29 to 29 year old match?

 

*** Rubbing my hands in glee as I sharpen my knives.....http://www.ringnews24.com/boxingforum/images/icons/icon6.png

[davemurphy]

Re: Pacquiao vs Mayweather @ 130lb~The Forgotten Matchup

 

--- Well, Dave, this match is for you.

 

Floydy's last two fights at 130 were in 2001 where he was pressured greatly by Carlos Hernandez and Jesus Chavez. Chavez in particular swamped him volume punching. He was kept him in reverse mostly for both fights. Then he moved to lightweight in 2002 with memorable bouts against JCCastillo, again mostly kept in reverse by the power punching Castillo as Floydy looked distinctly beat in their first fight. He turned 25 before his move up lightweight fights.

 

By your comments, I assume you think Floydy was in his prime years here, so let's look at Manny.

 

His last two bouts at 130 in 2007-2008 in between turning 29 years old against Barrera and the JMMarquez rematch. Then he moved to lightweight 2008 for a beatdown of David Diaz and then straight up to welter for a beat down on Oscar. Goes without saying that Manny's comp is infinitely better than Floydy's at this juncture with 3 HOFers spanning 4 weight classes.

 

Maybe not a fair fight since Manny's distinctly more mature at a very high point in his career, but then again this comes from 3rd world discipline of having to make very low weights to compete, so Manny was able to compete longer at the lower divisions. When Floydy turned 29 it was between his welter debut with Mitchell and then Judah. Mitchell a flashy southpaw for reference, but well past his best was reasonably dispatched, but the diminished southpaw version of Judah gave him all kinds of problems, causing Uncle Roger to suffer major meltdown which 99% of the times loses the fight for Floydy but for being propped up by his other Uncle Bob.

 

Naturally I take Manny to do a blitz on Floydy if he shows to fight. If he shows to stink, well, depends on whose pockets were filled by Sugar Daddy before the fight, ie Arum. We know Arum never liked having to bail out Floydy from numerous legal problems and his being unavailable when big matches were proposed whereas he's made Manny his adopted son.

 

Thus, as I might have predicted by my seat of the pants feel of timelines, I pick Manny in not much of a contest for either scenarios, but what sayeth you and others?

 

Can you or anyone make a credible case for a 25 year old Floydy against a 29 yr old Manny or a straight up 29 to 29 year old match?

 

*** Rubbing my hands in glee as I sharpen my knives.....http://www.ringnews24.com/boxingforum/images/icons/icon6.png

 

Much is made of the size difference, but I'll go ahead and match the 23-year-old version of Floyd that annihilated Corrales against any age Pacquiao at any weight.

[LondonRingRules]

Re: Pacquiao vs Mayweather @ 130lb~The Forgotten Matchup

 

Much is made of the size difference, but I'll go ahead and match the 23-year-old version of Floyd that annihilated Corrales against any age Pacquiao at any weight.

 

--- Dave, Corrales is just a name without context. He went on to great fights at lightweight with Castillo tainted by his mouthpiece spitting in the first fight that saved him from being knocked out and Castillo's intent not to make the weight in the 2nd fight which gave him the unfair advantage.

 

Corrales had a good run at superfeather, but he was always big guy starved out of his natural 135-140 divisions and pronounced Manfredy his last defense at 130 so as to move up to lightweight. The timing was such that he was convicted of assaulting his wife and sentenced to jail at which time Arum sensing blood in the waters entered in and secured his services in exchange for a nice tidy over to pay the wife and kids whilst he cooled down in the clink for 14 months. Compare to Floydy's repeated assaults on women that only netted him 6 months after repeated probations if you want to see who the house fighter is here.

 

Go watch the alleged fight where Corrales shows absolutely nothing, barely able to throw punches as he lurches around face first which is the same way he lurched into the pen a week later.

 

But Dave, you're instincts are impeccable here as this is exactly the time Floydy would have wanted Manny when Manny had just turned 23 and Floydy was soon to turn 24. Manny was defending his WBC superbanty International title against unheralded Senrima after previous KOs of undefeated Nedal Hussein and Seung Kon Chae, ect. Instead of Corrales with his weight problems, Floydy would put up his WBC superfeather title up at a 128 lb catchweight that he would be 2 lbs over and would pay Manny extra money to make the fight. Manny would be up 2 divisions fighting at what should be his natural weight for the first time, so all the factors favor Floydy save his natural fears of quick, powerful southpaws not that I think his 6th title defenses were any better at that point to Manny's defenses of his title.

 

I'd say Floydy is still as much as a kid as Manny as opposed to the seasoned fighters they became, but Manny has consistently thrown himself into the tiger pit to do combat as opposed to Floydy's carefully prepared diva approach to his career orchestrated by Arum out of necessity. I'll take the rawer, braver kid over the pampered house fighter here knowing the suits and the ref would all be lined up against Manny. He had an impossible to train for style even then and a punch to beat all at that weight and consistently made his debut into new divisions against the top ranked Ring fighter. So even moving up 2 divisions he's hugely better and closer to prime years than anyone Floydy ever faced at any weight, so there it is.

[davemurphy]

Re: Pacquiao vs Mayweather @ 130lb~The Forgotten Matchup

 

--- Dave, Corrales is just a name without context. He went on to great fights at lightweight with Castillo tainted by his mouthpiece spitting in the first fight that saved him from being knocked out and Castillo's intent not to make the weight in the 2nd fight which gave him the unfair advantage.

 

Corrales had a good run at superfeather, but he was always big guy starved out of his natural 135-140 divisions and pronounced Manfredy his last defense at 130 so as to move up to lightweight. The timing was such that he was convicted of assaulting his wife and sentenced to jail at which time Arum sensing blood in the waters entered in and secured his services in exchange for a nice tidy over to pay the wife and kids whilst he cooled down in the clink for 14 months. Compare to Floydy's repeated assaults on women that only netted him 6 months after repeated probations if you want to see who the house fighter is here.

 

Go watch the alleged fight where Corrales shows absolutely nothing, barely able to throw punches as he lurches around face first which is the same way he lurched into the pen a week later.

 

But Dave, you're instincts are impeccable here as this is exactly the time Floydy would have wanted Manny when Manny had just turned 23 and Floydy was soon to turn 24. Manny was defending his WBC superbanty International title against unheralded Senrima after previous KOs of undefeated Nedal Hussein and Seung Kon Chae, ect. Instead of Corrales with his weight problems, Floydy would put up his WBC superfeather title up at a 128 lb catchweight that he would be 2 lbs over and would pay Manny extra money to make the fight. Manny would be up 2 divisions fighting at what should be his natural weight for the first time, so all the factors favor Floydy save his natural fears of quick, powerful southpaws not that I think his 6th title defenses were any better at that point to Manny's defenses of his title.

 

I'd say Floydy is still as much as a kid as Manny as opposed to the seasoned fighters they became, but Manny has consistently thrown himself into the tiger pit to do combat as opposed to Floydy's carefully prepared diva approach to his career orchestrated by Arum out of necessity. I'll take the rawer, braver kid over the pampered house fighter here knowing the suits and the ref would all be lined up against Manny. He had an impossible to train for style even then and a punch to beat all at that weight and consistently made his debut into new divisions against the top ranked Ring fighter. So even moving up 2 divisions he's hugely better and closer to prime years than anyone Floydy ever faced at any weight, so there it is.

 

LRR-

Well, if the whole point of your argument here is to simply say that Manny, who came from absolutely nowhere out of the 3rd world, didn't get the early breaks in his career that the Nephew of a former world champion and son of a top contender did by being raised around the sport and being exposed to the best it has to offer in terms of amateur opportunities, then I can't really come up with anything to say, it seems rather obvious.

[LondonRingRules]

Re: Pacquiao vs Mayweather @ 130lb~The Forgotten Matchup

 

LRR-

Well, if the whole point of your argument here is to simply say that Manny, who came from absolutely nowhere out of the 3rd world, didn't get the early breaks in his career that the Nephew of a former world champion and son of a top contender did by being raised around the sport and being exposed to the best it has to offer in terms of amateur opportunities, then I can't really come up with anything to say, it seems rather obvious.

 

--- Dave, I'm used to pointing out the obvious so nobody can dispute it or use it as an argument. I said that Floydy is the favored fighter for all those reasons, but relative to 3rd world fighters, he was pampered and also in comparison to modern Americans DLH, Mosley, Jones, guys who were matched hard and expected to fight top comp.

 

That wouldn't be so bad except for the extreme lengths he's gone to pamper himself, #1 American P4P fighting an average of once a year all these years? Avoiding tough big money rematches and his #1 comp Pac, really? I'd also remind you a fight with Floydy and Pac was first mooted in the boxing press after Manny beat JMM in the rematch, what, going on 6 years now?

 

I have no problem understanding that Floydy could beat him as a possibility, but his fans don't see how silly they look claiming he beats Manny guaranteed but can't understand why Floydy won't fight him.

 

It's easy really, they say Floydy is oh so smart and agree he chooses his fights carefully, but are clueless in understanding that Floydy hisself doesn't think he can beat Manny and actually fears his style and power. He's always had the suits lined up in his corner and still don't want Manny, so Manny is mentally the stronger fighter and we know how those matchups usually pan out when the weaker guy with a history of meltdown type of retirements and avoiding the fight is forced to fight. He won't be forced, he's gonna outlast Manny's prime he thinks, but we shall see. The fight is irrelevant at this point in time though I'd watch it just because of the historical value just like we watched Lewis/Tyson, maybe 2015 at the earliest or maybe never.

 

Hence my 130 match up with Manny coming up 2 divisions like JMM did, or the 29 year old overlap versions of each where both were in the welter division. I love to break down fights and this as good as it gets as fantasy subject matter.