What sort of impact on the Klitschko's would this man have?

[WelshDevilRob]

What sort of impact on the Klitschko's would this man have?

 

The brothers have reigned dominant for almost 10 years.

 

Could things have been different, if this man was around to challenge them?

 

[davemurphy]

Rob-

It'll be an age-old question on how Ike would've effected things if he'd been around, the wins over Tua and Byrd certainly would leave one thinking that he was the "heir apparent" in the HW division, HOWEVER despite his obvious skill and power, the one thing that Ike didn't have was the size and reach, at 6 ft 2 and with a 76-inch reach, he'd have encountered the same problems with the pesky K2 jab that similar-sized guys like Eddie Chambers did. Ike did punch in combination though, something that's become even rarer in the HW division during the dozen years he's been gone. So at this point, I'm sure you saying to yourself, Dave, get off the pot and tell us your pick.....

 

 

I think Ike would've knocked out Wlad anytime before Steward showed up to help with WK's Chin, and I'd make him at least even money in the post-Manny period. Ibeabuchi was different from many in that he kept throwing even when he wasn't enjoying a lot of success, for example in the Byrd fight he was doing a LOT of missing but kept winging shots and it paid off. I don't think he'd have succumbed to urge to stop throwing and would've hurt Wlad seriously at least once along the way, with better than even chance of finishing him off. Against Vitali's superior chin, it would've been a great war, but I would have taken Vitali to outpoint Ike in a very close fight.

[WelshDevilRob]

Rob-

It'll be an age-old question on how Ike would've effected things if he'd been around, the wins over Tua and Byrd certainly would leave one thinking that he was the "heir apparent" in the HW division, HOWEVER despite his obvious skill and power, the one thing that Ike didn't have was the size and reach, at 6 ft 2 and with a 76-inch reach, he'd have encountered the same problems with the pesky K2 jab that similar-sized guys like Eddie Chambers did. Ike did punch in combination though, something that's become even rarer in the HW division during the dozen years he's been gone. So at this point, I'm sure you saying to yourself, Dave, get off the pot and tell us your pick.....

 

 

I think Ike would've knocked out Wlad anytime before Steward showed up to help with WK's Chin, and I'd make him at least even money in the post-Manny period. Ibeabuchi was different from many in that he kept throwing even when he wasn't enjoying a lot of success, for example in the Byrd fight he was doing a LOT of missing but kept winging shots and it paid off. I don't think he'd have succumbed to urge to stop throwing and would've hurt Wlad seriously at least once along the way, with better than even chance of finishing him off. Against Vitali's superior chin, it would've been a great war, but I would have taken Vitali to outpoint Ike in a very close fight.

 

I Love Ike cos he went away before he had a chance to smash the Lennox Lewis era. He wouldn't have just hit it like Rahman.

 

Ike was better than Brewster or Sanders and I disagree in that what Ike did to Wlad would be permanent.

 

Vitali was tougher but not tougher than Tua and just as likely to get dragged into a fight - a fight that he would lose.

 

Manny or not - I don't see the brothers keeping Ike off them and only one will fight. Both would crumble. The defense works against Heavies that don't wanna get to the other end - Ike wants to get there and like Tyson - that's what separates him.

[gavpowell]

Ah the annual Ike resurrection thread.

 

I've not seen his entire career, just a few fights, but I find it difficult to take the "smashes everyone to pieces" claim seriously when he only has two real names on his record, and one of those is a close fight with David Tua - not a brilliant sign for a would-be elite fighter.

 

He hit pretty hard and had a decent workrate for sure, but it's impossible to know how he'd fare when he found himself not only burning energy swinging and missing but also eating jabs and powerful right hands from a taller, rangier and more skilful opponent, which is how I see a Klitschko fight going. He'd have a chance against Wlad just as anyone would who could land solidly on the chin or force him to stay in a defensive shell, but against Vitali? I think he'd lose a lopsided decision.

 

Ibeabuchi, like prime Tyson, seems to benefit enormously from his meltdown, because it allowed him to win all kinds of fights without ever actually proving it.

[WelshDevilRob]

Ah the annual Ike resurrection thread.

 

I've not seen his entire career, just a few fights, but I find it difficult to take the "smashes everyone to pieces" claim seriously when he only has two real names on his record, and one of those is a close fight with David Tua - not a brilliant sign for a would-be elite fighter.

 

He hit pretty hard and had a decent workrate for sure, but it's impossible to know how he'd fare when he found himself not only burning energy swinging and missing but also eating jabs and powerful right hands from a taller, rangier and more skilful opponent, which is how I see a Klitschko fight going. He'd have a chance against Wlad just as anyone would who could land solidly on the chin or force him to stay in a defensive shell, but against Vitali? I think he'd lose a lopsided decision.

 

Ibeabuchi, like prime Tyson, seems to benefit enormously from his meltdown, because it allowed him to win all kinds of fights without ever actually proving it.

 

Without going into depth on you post.

 

Please explain the careers that his two best victims had.

[gavpowell]

Chris Byrd spent many years floating about the heavyweight division twinned with John Ruiz - largely keeping out of the way and being sidestepped while defending a fragment of the heavyweight title inbetween losses to Wlad, while David Tua spent his years working towards another title shot against decentish level guys(Moorer excluded maybe) and got utterly schooled by Lennox and gradually losing his way both personally and professionally. Formerly a lump with a big punch, he's now a lump without.

[WelshDevilRob]

Chris Byrd spent many years floating about the heavyweight division twinned with John Ruiz - largely keeping out of the way and being sidestepped while defending a fragment of the heavyweight title inbetween losses to Wlad, while David Tua spent his years working towards another title shot against decentish level guys(Moorer excluded maybe) and got utterly schooled by Lennox and gradually losing his way both personally and professionally. Formerly a lump with a big punch, he's now a lump without.

 

Agree that Tua did very little after Lennox Lewis. Tua seemed to go from self imposed exile to comeback and on and on. His best results probably the Ko's over an unbeaten Fres Oquendo and former champion Michael Moorer. The loss to Byrd and Draw with Rahman don't look good.

I think most would agree that Tua's career was at its height before the Lewis loss.

 

I'm not sure when he split with the Duvas but he did seem a formidable prospect under them beating a host of decent fighters.

 

Chris Byrd was an enigma - highly skilled but could have easily campaigned at Light Heavyweight. He probably had a better career at Heavyweight than he is creditted for. Two reigns as Heavyweight Champion - he held both WBO and IBF at different times. (Making 4 defenses of the IBF)

He was too lightweight to be competitive with the Klitschko's though at least holds a win over Vitali. Ike Ko'd Byrd a year before Byrds win over Vitali and taking Wladimir 12 rounds.

[gavpowell]

The win over Vitali wasn't Byrd winning though, was it? It was Vitali deciding(quite correctly, as it turned out) that his time would come again. Ironic that Vitali spent years known as "Quitschko" and now is seen as a near-unstoppable warrior.

 

I've hardly seen any Byrd fights at all because he just seemed to be largely irrelevant - very quick, but no power and seemingly very little ambition beyond shouting about it - a bit like Guerrero and Povetkin do now.

[WelshDevilRob]

The win over Vitali wasn't Byrd winning though, was it? It was Vitali deciding(quite correctly, as it turned out) that his time would come again. Ironic that Vitali spent years known as "Quitschko" and now is seen as a near-unstoppable warrior.

 

I've hardly seen any Byrd fights at all because he just seemed to be largely irrelevant - very quick, but no power and seemingly very little ambition beyond shouting about it - a bit like Guerrero and Povetkin do now.

 

 

Byrd vs Roy Jones would have been interesting as Byrd would have been quick enough to catch up with Roy. Roy chose the much more static John Ruiz.

 

Byrd probably rates as one of Wladimir's best wins. Vitali did get an awful lot of flack for quitting, against Byrd, it did make me laugh when his handlers claimed he had the same injury against Chisora but fought through the pain. It was like they were still seeking redemption for quitting all those years before when as you rightly say he is seen as very tough nowadays. (by the fans and media)

[LondonRingRules]

I Love Ike cos he went away before he had a chance to smash the Lennox Lewis era. He wouldn't have just hit it like Rahman.

 

Ike was better than Brewster or Sanders and I disagree in that what Ike did to Wlad would be permanent.

 

Vitali was tougher but not tougher than Tua and just as likely to get dragged into a fight - a fight that he would lose.

 

Manny or not - I don't see the brothers keeping Ike off them and only one will fight. Both would crumble. The defense works against Heavies that don't wanna get to the other end - Ike wants to get there and like Tyson - that's what separates him.

 

----- Sorry, Rob, but there've been a hundred or more heavies with talents and attributes to make an impact like you think Ike could have, but they didn't.

 

Prime Tyson would've handled him out easily, he was just too crude and slow, but like Tyson he had a major mental break down which cut his effective prime even shorter than Tyson's.

 

I thought Tua boxed and slugged with him beautifully, but the judges awarded Ike's aggression and workrate. Tua lost the fight but won the war since Ike started having headaches and schizoid visions and delusions thereafter which led to a series of felony charges against him.

 

Hmmmm, sounds like Floydy except he's too much of a lightweight to be a threat to anyone but his children and their mother. Lucky for Floydy he became a money spinner late in his career or he'd be warming his cell for at least another few years.

 

OK, Ike beat a young and still fearless Byrd fighting the wrong fight convincingly, but at the end of the day, Tua exposed his lack of durability. At best I can't see anything better than a Oliver McCall type of career, crying in the ring and always in trouble out of it. McCall had a good career overall, but just think if he had his head screwed on correctly from the git go.

 

Hmmmm, Ike vs Oliver, now there's an encounter to remember. Beam'em up Scottie!

[irondave85]

Both Ike and Tua were never the same after their clash. Tua turned into a fat, lazy slob and Ike started "hearing voices" and generally just turned batshit crazy.

[brooklynbrawler]

If he hadn't gone off the nut, then there's no doubt he would definitely be a contender.

Whether he would be another Shannon Briggs or Evander Holyfield at this stage, who knows?

He would almost have definitely picked up a world title at some point, but its all ifs and buts.

When he was at his peak, so was Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, McCall etc etc and the quality then was far far greater than it is now.

He could easily have suffered a couple of losses back then and petered out, just as easily as he could have come out on top.

I think Vitali has the beating of him, while the Wlad who got knocked out a couple of times would never have lived with his punch volume.

Then the Wlad who boxed from range behind a jab might just do okay.

It's giving Wlad a bit of discredit to write him off just because Ibeabuchi is in the mix. the simple fact is, he's dealt with everyone who's been put in front of him since he figured out a defence.

[davemurphy]

One thing I will say about Ike and that's that I think he'd have actually fought the best possible had he been around, and not taken the route that Tua and others took, fighting once every 18-months to two years just fan the flames of reclamation before going AWOL again.