Skav Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 What are yours? My pick of Ali didn't go down too well on another forum even though the degree in which I overrate him is relatively small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Bernard Hopkins: I know he divides opinion to a certain extent, but I've seen him several times held up as some sort of middleweight legend, and if anything, I think his middleweight career plays second fiddle to what he did afterwards. He was a reasonable hitter in his prime but he was a spoiling, running, cheating bastard who took just as many soft options as Calzaghe and managed to get away with it by virtue of being American. He's a model professional from the point of view of dedication and turning your life around, but he's just awful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Recently Donaire and Guerrero All time Ali, Tyson More but I'm too drunk to think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poztin Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hopkins was only allowed to dominate the middleweight division by Jones moving up in weight and letting him have it. Had Jones decided to sit in his comfort zone (as Hopkins did) in that division, Hopkins would have never seen a middleweight title and would probably been forced to move up himself. Instead he sat in a weak division and his biggest wins were against blown up welterweights. His post middleweight career was far more respectable however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hopkins was only allowed to dominate the middleweight division by Jones moving up in weight and letting him have it. Had Jones decided to sit in his comfort zone (as Hopkins did) in that division, Hopkins would have never seen a middleweight title and would probably been forced to move up himself. Instead he sat in a weak division and his biggest wins were against blown up welterweights. His post middleweight career was far more respectable however. Excellent post. Agree 100% about Bhop. More that I'd add to the list for now are Antonio Tarver, Riddick Bowe and Mark Breland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skav Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 Scott, just interested, why do you think Ali is overrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Scott, just interested, why do you think Ali is overrated? Because many view him as untouchable despite Fraizer, Norton and Young giving him hell. He got a few favours in his career and could easily have had 5 or 6 more losses on his record, that HAD he gotten he'd have been viewed in what is IMO the "real light" Don't get me wrong he was very good, but he wasn't the amazingly perfect HW that some paint him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Scott, just interested, why do you think Ali is overrated? Because many view him as untouchable despite Fraizer, Norton and Young giving him hell. He got a few favours in his career and could easily have had 5 or 6 more losses on his record, that HAD he gotten he'd have been viewed in what is IMO the "real light" Don't get me wrong he was very good, but he wasn't the amazingly perfect HW that some paint him out to be. Norton and Young couldn't live with him at his best. Frazier did or did he? Can't take anything away from, Joe. Ali, at his perfect best (no women or bans) would have beaten anybody. I don't know how people say he was overrated. He walked the walk and talked the talk. Ok, he lost but if its down to losing or looking bad then maybe we should crown Joe or Sven, as the Greatest or even Rocky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Prime example of how Ali is overrated - several sports writers, especially in the Daily Mail, have recently written pieces saying Ali was "the greatest athlete ever, the greatest boxer ever" - I think even Ali would say that was overrating him. Rather like "Peak Tyson", he's become unbeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Prime example of how Ali is overrated - several sports writers, especially in the Daily Mail, have recently written pieces saying Ali was "the greatest athlete ever, the greatest boxer ever" - I think even Ali would say that was overrating him. Rather like "Peak Tyson", he's become unbeatable. He was voted "Athlete of the Century" by many. That's not overrating but mass opinion. Anyway, who is reading the Daily Mail? grin// Its not like you've watched these fighters. You've never seen Ray Mercer fight - so how would you know? Keep reading the Daily Mail, so that they can inform you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Scott, just interested, why do you think Ali is overrated? Because many view him as untouchable despite Fraizer, Norton and Young giving him hell. He got a few favours in his career and could easily have had 5 or 6 more losses on his record, that HAD he gotten he'd have been viewed in what is IMO the "real light" Don't get me wrong he was very good, but he wasn't the amazingly perfect HW that some paint him out to be. Norton and Young couldn't live with him at his best. Frazier did or did he? Can't take anything away from, Joe. Ali, at his perfect best (no women or bans) would have beaten anybody. I don't know how people say he was overrated. He walked the walk and talked the talk. Ok, he lost but if its down to losing or looking bad then maybe we should crown Joe or Sven, as the Greatest or even Rocky. Need I say more, Rob you've proven my point. At his best Fraizer and Norton would have given him hell. I wouldn't call Sven or Joe the greatest (I'd be more tempted to go with Robinson, Greb or Armstrong) but Ali, for all his greatness wasn't as perfect as people make out. RE the topic Jack Johnson is another, ditto Dempsey, Sullivan, Jeffries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Scott, just interested, why do you think Ali is overrated? Because many view him as untouchable despite Fraizer, Norton and Young giving him hell. He got a few favours in his career and could easily have had 5 or 6 more losses on his record, that HAD he gotten he'd have been viewed in what is IMO the "real light" Don't get me wrong he was very good, but he wasn't the amazingly perfect HW that some paint him out to be. Norton and Young couldn't live with him at his best. Frazier did or did he? Can't take anything away from, Joe. Ali, at his perfect best (no women or bans) would have beaten anybody. I don't know how people say he was overrated. He walked the walk and talked the talk. Ok, he lost but if its down to losing or looking bad then maybe we should crown Joe or Sven, as the Greatest or even Rocky. Need I say more, Rob you've proven my point. At his best Fraizer and Norton would have given him hell. I wouldn't call Sven or Joe the greatest (I'd be more tempted to go with Robinson, Greb or Armstrong) but Ali, for all his greatness wasn't as perfect as people make out. RE the topic Jack Johnson is another, ditto Dempsey, Sullivan, Jeffries... How did I prove your point? Frazier beat him after a long layoff. Ali was banned from fighting during probably his best years. How did my comments Prove your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You said he was "perfect" he was far from "perfect". Fraizer beat him AFTER he'd fought twice in the preceding 5 months. No "perfect" Heavyweight would have been dropped HARD by Cooper, or by Sonny Banks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Prime example of how Ali is overrated - several sports writers, especially in the Daily Mail, have recently written pieces saying Ali was "the greatest athlete ever, the greatest boxer ever" - I think even Ali would say that was overrating him. Rather like "Peak Tyson", he's become unbeatable. He was voted "Athlete of the Century" by many. That's not overrating but mass opinion. Anyway, who is reading the Daily Mail? grin// Its not like you've watched these fighters. You've never seen Ray Mercer fight - so how would you know? I've never seen Ray Mercer fight, therefore I wouldn't know about Muhammad Ali? At least try to keep your trolling relevant, you daft sod. As to reading the Daily Mail, I was reading everything relating to Khan getting KOd at time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You said he was "perfect" he was far from "perfect". Fraizer beat him AFTER he'd fought twice in the preceding 5 months. No "perfect" Heavyweight would have been dropped HARD by Cooper, or by Sonny Banks... You need to learn to read or better still try and not misquote. I said "perfect best". So no need to reply to the rest. grin// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Prime example of how Ali is overrated - several sports writers, especially in the Daily Mail, have recently written pieces saying Ali was "the greatest athlete ever, the greatest boxer ever" - I think even Ali would say that was overrating him. Rather like "Peak Tyson", he's become unbeatable. He was voted "Athlete of the Century" by many. That's not overrating but mass opinion. Anyway, who is reading the Daily Mail? grin// Its not like you've watched these fighters. You've never seen Ray Mercer fight - so how would you know? I've never seen Ray Mercer fight, therefore I wouldn't know about Muhammad Ali? At least try to keep your trolling relevant, you daft sod. As to reading the Daily Mail, I was reading everything relating to Khan getting KOd at time. I was about the send LRR a message about Trolling and how when Gav posts, Scott does aswell. Both here now. mlol/ Hes not the Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You said he was "perfect" he was far from "perfect". Fraizer beat him AFTER he'd fought twice in the preceding 5 months. No "perfect" Heavyweight would have been dropped HARD by Cooper, or by Sonny Banks... You need to learn to read or better still try and not misquote. I said "perfect best". So no need to reply to the rest. grin// At his best? When exactly was that? When he was dropped by Cooper? When Walcott fucked up? When Banks dropped him? When Fraizer beat him? When Norton beat him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You said he was "perfect" he was far from "perfect". Fraizer beat him AFTER he'd fought twice in the preceding 5 months. No "perfect" Heavyweight would have been dropped HARD by Cooper, or by Sonny Banks... You need to learn to read or better still try and not misquote. I said "perfect best". So no need to reply to the rest. grin// At his best? When exactly was that? When he was dropped by Cooper? When Walcott f****d up? When Banks dropped him? When Fraizer beat him? When Norton beat him? Maybe, when you miss quoted me - or didn't that happen? Answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 You said he was "perfect" he was far from "perfect". Fraizer beat him AFTER he'd fought twice in the preceding 5 months. No "perfect" Heavyweight would have been dropped HARD by Cooper, or by Sonny Banks... You need to learn to read or better still try and not misquote. I said "perfect best". So no need to reply to the rest. grin// At his best? When exactly was that? When he was dropped by Cooper? When Walcott f****d up? When Banks dropped him? When Fraizer beat him? When Norton beat him? Maybe, when you miss quoted me - or didn't that happen? Answer? "at his perfect best" would infer at his best he was perfect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I was about the send LRR a message about Trolling and how when Gav posts, Scott does aswell. Both here now. mlol/ Hes not the Troll. I'm posting at the same time as you too. If anything that makes us all goats. But it doesn't make Ali the GOAT ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Rob a tip- Don't offend the few posters who actually do post here, they can just as easily go elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irondave85 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Lennox Lewis - he was sh*t. boxing// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshDevilRob Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Rob a tip- Don't offend the few posters who actually do post here, they can just as easily go elsewhere... Maybe, cos you keep offending or Jumping on other posters - they go elsewhere. This site will continue with or without you. Do what you feel is best and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamasadlittleboy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Offending? I was asked "who do I feel was over-rated?" I feel Ali was over-rated and I gave my reasons. AKA "Answering the question that was asked" Your the only one being offending by calling 2 of the top 10 (in terms of posts) trolls. When was Ali at his best? When he was dropped by Cooper? When he was beaten by Fraizer? (he was only 29 by then) Or later than that?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavpowell Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 I'm in the top 10?? I've never been in the top 10 of anything before. If I make it to third is there a medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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