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Old historian's All-Time rankings

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  • Old historian's All-Time rankings

    Been looking at past historian's rankings - P4P and divisional. Only found a few, so far, so please add any to this topic. It's interesting how fighters were viewed and rated. Some like Harry Greb we've not seen but people like Nat Fleischer have.



    Nat Fleischer was the Ring Magazine editor-in-chief for 50 years, from 1922 until the time of his death in 1972. Here is his last list of the best fighters in each division (the original eight). Below are his rankings in 1958. Interesting reading.

    Ring Magazine in 1971
    Greatest Fighters of All Time
    As selected by Nat Fleischer.


    Heavyweights:

    1 - Jack Johnson
    2 - James J. Jeffries
    3 - Bob Fitzsimmons
    4 - Jack Dempsey
    5 - James J. Corbett
    6 - Joe Louis
    7 - Sam Langford
    8 - Gene Tunney
    9 - Max Schmeling
    10- Rocky Marciano


    Light Heavyweights:

    1 - Kid McCoy
    2 - Philadelphia Jack O'Brian
    3 - Jack Dillon
    4 - Tommy Loughran
    5 - Jack Root
    6 - Battling Levensky
    7 - Georges Carpentier
    8 - Tom Gibbons
    9 - Jack Delaney
    10- Paul Berlenbach


    Middleweights:

    1 - Stanley Ketchell
    2 - Tommy Ryan
    3 - Harry Greb
    4 - Mickey Walker
    5 - Ray Robinson
    6 - Frank Klaus
    7 - Billy Papke
    8 - Les Darcy
    9 - Mike Gibbons
    10- Jeff Smith


    Welterweights:

    1 - Joe Walcott
    2 - Mysterious Billy Smith
    3 - Jack Britton
    4 - Ted Kid Lewis
    5 - Dixie Kid
    6 - Harry Lewis
    7 - Willie Lewis
    8 - Henry Armstrong
    9 - Barney Ross
    10- Jimmy McLarnin


    Lightweights:

    1 - Joe Gans
    2 - Benny Leonard
    3 - Owen Moran
    4 - Freddy Welsh
    5 - Battling Nelson
    6 - George Kid Lavigne
    7 - Tony Canzoneri
    8 - Willie Ritchie
    9 - Lew Tendler
    10- Ad Wolgast


    Featherweights:

    1 - Terry McGovern
    2 - Jim Driscoll
    3 - Abe Attell
    4 - Willie Pep
    5 - Johnny Dundee
    6 - Young Griffo
    7 - Johnny Kilbane
    8 - Kid Chocolate
    9 - George K.O. Chaney
    10- Louis Kid Kaplan


    Bantamweights:

    1 - George Dixon
    2 - Pete Herman
    3 - Kid Williams
    4 - Eder Jofre
    5 - Joe Lynch
    6 - Bud Taylor
    7 - Johnny Coulon
    8 - Frankie Burns
    9 - Eddie Campi
    10- Panama Al Brown


    Flyweight:

    1 - Jimmy Wilde
    2 - Pancho Villa
    3 - Frankie Genaro
    4 - Fidel La Barba
    5 - Benny Lynch
    6 - Elky Clark
    7 - Johnny Buff
    8 - Midget Wolgast
    9 - Peter Kane
    10- Pascual Perez


    Greatest Fighters of All Time
    As selected by Nat Fleischer in 1958


    Middleweight
    1. Stanley Ketchel
    2. Tommy Ryan
    3. Harry Greb
    4. Mickey Walker
    5. Sugar Ray Robinson
    6. Frank Klaus
    7. Billy Papke
    8. Les Darcy
    9. Mike Gibbons
    10. Jeff Smith


    Light Heavyweight
    1. Kid McCoy
    2. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
    3. Jack Dillon
    4. Tommy Loughran
    5. Jack Root
    6. Battling Levinsky
    7. Georges Carpentier
    8. Tommy Gibbons
    9. Jack Delaney
    10. Paul Berlenbach


    Heavyweight
    1. Jack Johnson
    2. James J. Jeffries
    3. Bob Fitzsimmons
    4. Jack Dempsey
    5. James J. Corbett
    6. Joe Louis
    7. Sam Langford
    8. Gene Tunney
    9. Max Schmeling
    10. Rocky Marciano

  • #2
    Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

    Gilbert Odd was a writer for Boxing. He lived from 1902 to 1996.

    Gilbert Odd (1985)

    Kings of the Ring/100 Years of Heavyweight Boxing, by Gilbert Odd (pp. 151-154)

    1-Muhammad Ali
    2-Joe Louis
    3-Jack Johnson
    4-Floyd Patterson
    5-Jack Dempsey
    6-Jim Jeffries
    7-Tommy Burns
    8-Gene Tunney
    9-Jim Corbett
    10-Max Schmeling
    11-Larry Holmes
    12-Jack Sharkey
    13-Jim Braddock
    14-Ezzard Charles
    15-Rocky Marciano
    16-Joe Frazier
    17-Bob Fitzsimmons
    18-John L. Sullivan
    19-Jersey Joe Walcott
    20-Max Baer
    21-Ingemar Johansson
    22-Primo Carnera
    23-Sonny Liston
    24-Jess Willard
    25-Marvin Hart

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings



      Bert Randolph Sugar (1936-2012)
      Bert was a boxing writer from the 1960's onwards. He wrote many books and owned Boxing Illustrated and Boxing Digest.

      Bert Sugar's top 100 of all time (2006)

      1. Sugar Ray Robinson
      2. Henry Armstrong
      3. Wille Pep
      4. Joe Louis
      5. Harry Greb
      6. Benny Leonard
      7. Muhammad Ali
      8. Roberto Duran
      9. Jack Dempsey
      10. Jack Johnson
      11. Mickey Walker
      12. Tony Canzoneri
      13. Gene Tunney
      14. Rocky Marciano
      15. Joe Gans
      16. Sam Langford
      17. Julio Cesar Chavez
      18. Jimmy Wilde
      19. Stanley Ketchel
      20 Barney Ross
      21, Jimmy McLarnin
      22. Archie Moore
      23. Marcel Cerdan
      24. Ezzard Charles
      25. Sugar Ray Leonard
      26. Joe Walcott (The original)
      27. Jake LaMotta
      28. Eder Jofre
      29. Emile Griffith
      30. Terry McGovern
      31. George Foreman
      32. Johnny Dundee
      33. Jose Napoles
      34. Pascual Perez
      35. Billy Conn
      36. Ruben Olivares
      37. Joe Frazier
      38. Tommy Loughran
      39. Sandy Saddler
      40. Kid Chocolate
      41. Abe Attell
      42. Evander Holyfield
      43. George Dixon
      44. Maxie Rosenbloom
      45. Larry Holmes
      46. Ted "Kid" Lewis
      47. Marvin Hagler
      48. Pernell Whitaker
      49. Carlos Zarate
      50. Thomas Hearns
      51. Battling Nelson
      52. Beau Jack
      53. Ricardo Lopez
      54. John L. Sullivan
      55. Carlos Monzon
      56. Alexis Arguello
      57. Carmen Basillio
      58. Pete Herman
      59. Charley Burley
      60. Ike Williams
      61. Kid Gavilan
      62. Jack Britton
      63. Dick Tiger
      64. Pancho Villa
      65. Panama Al Brown
      66. Bob Fitszimmons
      67. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
      68. Tiger Flowers
      69. James J.Corbett
      70. Tony Zale
      71. Tommy Ryan
      72. Georges Carpentier
      73, Sonny Liston
      74. "Kid" McCoy
      75. Bob Foster
      76. Freddie Welsh
      77. Joe Jeanette
      78. Jim Driscoll
      79. Jersey Joe Walcott
      80. Peter Jackson
      81. Ad Wolgast
      82. Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
      83. Manuel Ortiz
      84. James J. Jeffries
      85. Salvador Sanchez
      86. Jimmy Barry
      87. Carlos Ortiz
      88. Roy Jones Jr.
      89. Wilfredo Gomez
      90. Aaron Pryor
      91. Bernard Hopkins
      92. Mike Gibbons
      93. Jack Delaney
      94. Johnny Kilbane
      95. Willie Ritchie
      96. Wilfredo Benitez
      97. Packey McFarland
      98. Rocky Graziano
      99. Lew Jenkins
      100. Mike Tyson




      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

        Been meaning to give this a good read having only just discovered it. Hank seemed one of the more sensible historians.
        The Hank Kaplan Boxing Archive
        https://library.brooklyn.cuny.edu/pa...lan/index.html

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Old historian's All-Time rankings

          --- on the old aol forum one of the guys was a minor sort of a trainer told of attending an informal party that Sugar was at.

          He was in his full hat and cigar act. Notice the cigar is never smoked, instead a prop used to bolster his shsstick. A young gal snatched his hat off that blew him up as everyone laughed in delight in his pale, bald pate. I guess like wearing loose fitting casual pants and having someone pull them down behind you.

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