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What if Hagler had fought McCallum?


BoztheMadman
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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Hmmm, clearly?

 

How about not hardly since it was a split decision by a completely international group of ref and judges, who for reasons probably based on their newly laden pockets, pulled some monkey shines that favored McCallum who looked sluggish, clumsy, and oafish, hardly a picture of some all time great though he took some great sharp shots well enough. I was primed to be against Graham after Brits shamelessly bigged him up, usually meaning their fighters were grossly overrated, but instead I was highly impressed with his sublime skills, poise, and ring generalship. I'd guess he was maybe at his peak around then. The British announcers were such sorry Brit losers that they wanted pin all their hopes that Graham would be the "brave" loser that Brits seem to be overly fond of.

 

Here's just a sample of what went on gleaned from boxrec. Ain't got time to review the fight again to argue over boxing's inept and corrupt scoring system:

 

*** McCallum took an eight-count from the referee after going down early in the fifth round. None of the three judges counted it as a knockdown as it was a slip on water.

- Graham was deducted a point in round eight for throwing McCallum into a turnbuckle.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

Absolutely not! I scored that fight and couldn't give Graham more than 5 rounds.

 

 

Absolutely right for me, very good performance by Bomber Graham but Mc Callum had won clearly.

The second fight with Kalambay was very close (more than the one with Graham) and McCallum victory is not a robbery, but also a draw and a victory with a little margin for Kalambay (underreted fighter) would be right at the time in my opinion.

The rumors that Hearns not want to deal McCallum say much about the value of Bodysnather (in that match for me McCallum is favorite for me).

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

Absolutely right for me, very good performance by Bomber Graham but Mc Callum had won clearly.

The second fight with Kalambay was very close (more than the one with Graham) and McCallum victory is not a robbery, but also a draw and a victory with a little margin for Kalambay (underreted fighter) would be right at the time in my opinion.

The rumors that Hearns not want to deal McCallum say much about the value of Bodysnather (in that match for me McCallum is favorite for me).

Yep, all true. I agree with everything you said. :thumb: Hearns didn't want a piece of him and Duran obviously didn't want a piece of him, since he rather vacated his title than to defend it against Mike. Bad move, bad move...but I think on Duran's behalf it might have been ignorance, he probably knew little about McCallum and didn't think he was worth his time. But Hearns definitely ducked Bodysnatcher. They were in the same gym and he knew everything there is to know about him.

Edited by BoztheMadman
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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

Yep, all true. I agree with everything you said. :thumb: Hearns didn't want a piece of him and Duran obviously didn't want a piece of him, since he rather vacated his title than to defend it against Mike. Bad move, bad move...but I think on Duran's behalf it might have been ignorance, he probably knew little about McCallum and didn't think he was worth his time. But Hearns definitely ducked Bodysnatcher. They were in the same gym and he knew everything there is to know about him.

If they'd fought I'd be inclined towards Hearns (on another day i may think differently!) but he definitely would have known he was in a serious fight. Hearns clearly thought the risk outweighed the reward.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

Let's put this silly topic in perspective - it's a bit like those debates of why didn't Joe Calzaghe fight Roy Jones Jr in his prime when Joe had just won a vacant WBO title.

 

Marvin Hagler beat the feared John Mugabi in March 1986 (should've fought James Shuler but a deal was done for Hearns to fight him - to lead to Hagler vs Hearns 2).

'Marvelous' beat Mugabi (Hearns beat Shuler) then Marvin didn't fight til April 1987 in a Superfight against the comebacking Sugar Ray Leonard. Hagler vs Leonard was an absolutely huge fight.

 

What was Mike McCallum doing in this time period? Well, he was competing in the Jnr.Middleweight division - not the biggest name and didn't really take down a name fighter til Milton McCrory (April 1987) followed by Donald Curry (July 1988). Hagler had already gone - in a sulk cos of the Leonard decision going against him.

 

McCallum when he fought for one of the vacant middleweight titles (WBA) against Sumbu Kalambay - lost fairly.

 

Are people seriously saying that Hagler should've fought McCallum instead of Hearns in April 1985?

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Yessss...McC with a platoon of sillies think Marv ducked him just like the sillies claiming Rocky ducked Patterson and Liston though neither were ranked nor gone past 8 rds by the time of Rocky's last fight.

 

That's just silly...

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

Let's put this silly topic in perspective - it's a bit like those debates of why didn't Joe Calzaghe fight Roy Jones Jr in his prime when Joe had just won a vacant WBO title.

 

Marvin Hagler beat the feared John Mugabi in March 1986 (should've fought James Shuler but a deal was done for Hearns to fight him - to lead to Hagler vs Hearns 2).

'Marvelous' beat Mugabi (Hearns beat Shuler) then Marvin didn't fight til April 1987 in a Superfight against the comebacking Sugar Ray Leonard. Hagler vs Leonard was an absolutely huge fight.

 

What was Mike McCallum doing in this time period? Well, he was competing in the Jnr.Middleweight division - not the biggest name and didn't really take down a name fighter til Milton McCrory (April 1987) followed by Donald Curry (July 1988). Hagler had already gone - in a sulk cos of the Leonard decision going against him.

 

McCallum when he fought for one of the vacant middleweight titles (WBA) against Sumbu Kalambay - lost fairly.

 

Are people seriously saying that Hagler should've fought McCallum instead of Hearns in April 1985?

No, we are saying HEARNS should have fought him instead of Duran. Or, along with Duran. And same goes for Duran. And, call my topic silly one more time and I am finished here. Also, notice the thread title says WHAT IF, not WHY DIDN'T.

Edited by BoztheMadman
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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Looking back, you're the one who put the thread off track with wholesale charges of ducking.

 

To the point of your title, at the time of Marv's last fight with Leonard, he would have knocked out McC who was still a smallish novice. Might've knocked out Leonard as well had he not been such a shameless runner.

 

Bottom line was in the day McC was irrelevant to the fab 4. No shame in that, but why didn't McC fight Tony Ayala? Ducking? Tony at least made himself relevant to have a Hagler fight lined up before he went to prison. Would have been a great, doable fight, but only after Hagler got him.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Looking back, you're the one who put the thread off track with wholesale charges of ducking.

 

To the point of your title, at the time of Marv's last fight with Leonard, he would have knocked out McC who was still a smallish novice. Might've knocked out Leonard as well had he not been such a shameless runner.

 

Bottom line was in the day McC was irrelevant to the fab 4. No shame in that, but why didn't McC fight Tony Ayala? Ducking? Tony at least made himself relevant to have a Hagler fight lined up before he went to prison. Would have been a great, doable fight, but only after Hagler got him.

 

:lmao: Now I know you can't be serious. This discussion, with you, is over. ;-)

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

No, we are saying HEARNS should have fought him instead of Duran. Or, along with Duran. And same goes for Duran. And, call my topic silly one more time and I am finished here. Also, notice the thread title says WHAT IF, not WHY DIDN'T.

 

I didn't mean the original topic was silly. I also believe everyone has a right to an opinion within the topic - some I agree with and some I don't. What I should've said was that I find some of the posts silly regarding Hagler ducking McCallum - which I then explained in my post. If someone believes that McCallum wins, whether prime or around that time, then that's their opinion and I respect that, whether I agree or not.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

I didn't mean the original topic was silly. I also believe everyone has a right to an opinion within the topic - some I agree with and some I don't. What I should've said was that I find some of the posts silly regarding Hagler ducking McCallum - which I then explained in my post. If someone believes that McCallum wins, whether prime or around that time, then that's their opinion and I respect that, whether I agree or not.

 

Fair enuff, I don't hold any grudge anymore. :thumb:

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

Let's put this silly topic in perspective - it's a bit like those debates of why didn't Joe Calzaghe fight Roy Jones Jr in his prime when Joe had just won a vacant WBO title.

 

Marvin Hagler beat the feared John Mugabi in March 1986 (should've fought James Shuler but a deal was done for Hearns to fight him - to lead to Hagler vs Hearns 2).

'Marvelous' beat Mugabi (Hearns beat Shuler) then Marvin didn't fight til April 1987 in a Superfight against the comebacking Sugar Ray Leonard. Hagler vs Leonard was an absolutely huge fight.

 

What was Mike McCallum doing in this time period? Well, he was competing in the Jnr.Middleweight division - not the biggest name and didn't really take down a name fighter til Milton McCrory (April 1987) followed by Donald Curry (July 1988). Hagler had already gone - in a sulk cos of the Leonard decision going against him.

 

McCallum when he fought for one of the vacant middleweight titles (WBA) against Sumbu Kalambay - lost fairly.

 

Are people seriously saying that Hagler should've fought McCallum instead of Hearns in April 1985?

 

Sorry but I think we were discussing that match would be Hagler - McCallum (prediction, type of fight), not because they will not be met. What you say is all true and right but I don't think it was that the theme of the topic. That is one possible argument for Hearns - McCallum, not for McCallum - Hagler (for the reasons you've explained), in my opinion.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

In response to Boz in the Coetzee thread, you're right it was me. You still didn't have any evidence then that Hagler ducked McCallum and you still don't now. I didn't say McCallum wasn't rated as a middle, I said there was no network or fan interest in the fight. Until he kayo'ed Curry McCallum's profile was fairly low. He couldn't fill his front room while Hagler was active and Hagler was the biggest attraction in the sport. There was literally no talk of such a contest outside of Mike's head.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Haglers last 3 fights were Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard, and the public was frothing at the bit to see them.

 

Nobody ever frothed over McC save McC himself and a handful of fans. Great fighter, maybe to 20 middle, but how many are beating down doors to buy his fights?

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Haglers last 3 fights were Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard, and the public was frothing at the bit to see them.

 

Nobody ever frothed over McC save McC himself and a handful of fans. Great fighter, maybe to 20 middle, but how many are beating down doors to buy his fights?

You think stopping undefeated Julian Jackson in 2 and knocking Donald Curry out cold was nothing interesting? Didn't engage the public? I beg to differ.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

In response to Boz in the Coetzee thread, you're right it was me. You still didn't have any evidence then that Hagler ducked McCallum and you still don't now. I didn't say McCallum wasn't rated as a middle, I said there was no network or fan interest in the fight. Until he kayo'ed Curry McCallum's profile was fairly low. He couldn't fill his front room while Hagler was active and Hagler was the biggest attraction in the sport. There was literally no talk of such a contest outside of Mike's head.

 

As I said already, Curry was in talks of fighting Hagler, before he lost to Mike and before Marvin retired. Sure, Curry was a bigger name than Mike but-a welterweight who never ever fought above 154. Correct? Mike was a champion at junior middleweight, which should AUTOMATICALLY make him a viable and logical challenger for Hagler's crown.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

You think stopping undefeated Julian Jackson in 2 and knocking Donald Curry out cold was nothing interesting? Didn't engage the public? I beg to differ.

 

--- Curry was the guy who announced McC to the boxing public, but all Marv wanted was the Leonard rematch and who but the most miserly would begrudge him?

 

no matter how you dice it, Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard is what the public clamped for. There were a dozen more legit contenders in McC class equally deserving. Over time he proved to be better than most of them, but Marv long retired. Had Marv subbed McC for Leonard in 87, his last fight, most would pick Marv, but that's not the way the cards played out.

 

Damn narrow window of overlap not even worth a mention IMO.

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Re: What if Hagler had fought McCallum?

 

--- Curry was the guy who announced McC to the boxing public, but all Marv wanted was the Leonard rematch and who but the most miserly would begrudge him?

 

no matter how you dice it, Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard is what the public clamped for. There were a dozen more legit contenders in McC class equally deserving. Over time he proved to be better than most of them, but Marv long retired. Had Marv subbed McC for Leonard in 87, his last fight, most would pick Marv, but that's not the way the cards played out.

 

Damn narrow window of overlap not even worth a mention IMO.

The Jackson result was a good one but only with the benefit of hindsight. At the time Jackson was an unknown who had a record padded with KO's of nobodies. He'd certainly never faced anyone that would have prepared him for McCallum. Good result though it was it barely made a ripple at the time. I don't think it was broadcast on a network in the US.

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