Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

I'd go Calzaghe, he got his best wins against fighters AT that weight, whilst Hopkins' best wins were generally against fighters going up in weight

 

Brancko Sobot, Rick Thornberry, Dave Starie, Will McIntyre, Miguel Jiminez, Mger Mkrtchyan, Kabary Salem, Evan Ashira, Peter Manfredo JR.....did I forget anybody?

 

None were possessing anything more than a decent record, and a numbered card as place holder with the WBO. None were great. None went on to do anything beyond that one moment with Calzaghe........just like before their challenge of him.

 

Hopkins did no different than Hagler and Monzon before him, to name but two, whence turning back the loaded challenge of an accomplished smaller man. In fact, middleweight history is rife with such, a history that goes back over a century. The super middleweight division is a comparative newb.

 

The irony here is Joe claims perhaps his best if highly controversial win over a naturally smaller man.......and a much faded one at that.

 

That list of Calzaghe's you've just posted is rather appalling, I do give Joe a pass on Ashira, who he beat one handed but thats besides the point.

 

To balance it though here's a list of forgettable names on Hopkins ledger - Steve Frank, Joe Lipsey, William Bo James, Andrew Council, Rob Allen x3 and Morrade Hakkar - a list well on par with Joe's.

 

Good points about Monzon and Hagler beating lower weight rivals. Hopkins made a habit of it, with a past it John David Jackson and Simon Brown. Carl Daniels another but topped his reign off with marquee TV names in Trinidad and De La Hoya.

 

I fully agree that Joe's resume isn't pretty reading but looking at Bernards his isn't either.

 

The difference is Hopkins chased unification for years - and they gave it to him the moment they figured he was rocking chair ready. When the time came he swept through the division fight per fight per fight and locked it up with no controversy. Agreed that there were some fighters he turned back that didn't deserve it but there were fewer than as mandated....fight per fight per fight....as with the WBO. Also, as shot as Simon Brown was or as Faded as Carl Daniels appeared to be.....Bernard gets a pass with them if Calzaghe gets a pass with Roy Jones JR.

 

Can't have it both ways.

 

I wouldn't give either man a pass with Jones JR. They both wanted his name and got it, nothing more, nothing less.

this.

JJR was shot to bits against Joe, i don't know what that makes him against Hopkins

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Please we had to ban avatars like the one above. I can´t stop looking to his ... pants?:lmao:

By the way, Joe beat Bernard when both were on his prime, so i´d pick Joe as the best of them two.

But, the greatest LH of their era was Roy Jones Jr. Yeah, i saw the fight with Joe, but that wasn´t Roy no more. He never was the same since he fell from HW.

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Please we had to ban avatars like the one above. I can´t stop looking to his ... pants?:lmao:

By the way, Joe beat Bernard when both were on his prime, so i´d pick Joe as the best of them two.

But, the greatest LH of their era was Roy Jones Jr. Yeah, i saw the fight with Joe, but that wasn´t Roy no more. He never was the same since he fell from HW.

Haha, Classic thread. It was me that gave members joke avatars lol.

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Haha, Classic thread. It was me that gave members joke avatars lol.

--- Kinda Goldie oldie thread this. Good humor days replete with Popkins crawling around on all fours yelping like a kicked cur.

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Very old thread and been done to death. The answer to the OP is resoundingly Hopkins. A 2 weight division multiple world belt holder and also the oldest man to ever win a world title. Ranked 11th P4P boxer of all time by boxrec. And held all 4 versions of the belt at some stage.

In 40+ fights Joe's only win of note was a decision against Kessler. He wouldnt go over to Germany to fight Beyer or Ottke - who held the WBA and IBF belts. Even Reid went over to fight Ottke. I dont know what Joe was scared of (?) Not a great legacy at 168.

When he moved to 175lb he shamelessly ducked Dawson (the top dog at the time) and he even ducked Cloud. Instead he chose to fight two 40yr olds in non title fights and got decked in R1 of both fights!

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Very old thread and been done to death. The answer to the OP is resoundingly Hopkins. A 2 weight division multiple world belt holder and also the oldest man to ever win a world title. Ranked 11th P4P boxer of all time by boxrec. And held all 4 versions of the belt at some stage.

 

In 40+ fights Joe's only win of note was a decision against Kessler. He wouldnt go over to Germany to fight Beyer or Ottke - who held the WBA and IBF belts. Even Reid went over to fight Ottke. I dont know what Joe was scared of (?) Not a great legacy at 168.

 

When he moved to 175lb he shamelessly ducked Dawson (the top dog at the time) and he even ducked Cloud. Instead he chose to fight two 40yr olds in non title fights and got decked in R1 of both fights!

I better not answer this! :nono: :mlol: Sorry old chap, but you're WAY OFF!

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Very old thread and been done to death. The answer to the OP is resoundingly Hopkins. A 2 weight division multiple world belt holder and also the oldest man to ever win a world title. Ranked 11th P4P boxer of all time by boxrec. And held all 4 versions of the belt at some stage.

 

In 40+ fights Joe's only win of note was a decision against Kessler. He wouldnt go over to Germany to fight Beyer or Ottke - who held the WBA and IBF belts. Even Reid went over to fight Ottke. I dont know what Joe was scared of (?) Not a great legacy at 168.

 

When he moved to 175lb he shamelessly ducked Dawson (the top dog at the time) and he even ducked Cloud. Instead he chose to fight two 40yr olds in non title fights and got decked in R1 of both fights!

Agree with a lot of this. I am a big Calzaghe fan but even I have to admit that his all-time status tends to get considerably overstated. His legacy wasn't particularly enhanced by either of the RJJ or Hopkins fights. Both were well past their prime (especially RJJ) and the Hopkins fight was a very close one which arguably came down to preferences (flurrying activity vs stinging clean pot shots). His real legacy is built at 168 with the Kessler win, some creditable defences against solid opposition, and a spectacular display against Lacy in a fight that many thought he would lose. He had a very difficult style to cope with, which gets him further points in imagined matchup stakes, but any argument for his being greater the Hopkins and RJJ is, for me, hopelessly misguided. I love Calzaghe and consider him one of the best British fighters there has been, but his greatness compared with those to pales by comparison.

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Agree with a lot of this. I am a big Calzaghe fan but even I have to admit that his all-time status tends to get considerably overstated. His legacy wasn't particularly enhanced by either of the RJJ or Hopkins fights. Both were well past their prime (especially RJJ) and the Hopkins fight was a very close one which arguably came down to preferences (flurrying activity vs stinging clean pot shots). His real legacy is built at 168 with the Kessler win, some creditable defences against solid opposition, and a spectacular display against Lacy in a fight that many thought he would lose. He had a very difficult style to cope with, which gets him further points in imagined matchup stakes, but any argument for his being greater the Hopkins and RJJ is, for me, hopelessly misguided. I love Calzaghe and consider him one of the best British fighters there has been, but his greatness compared with those to pales by comparison.

--- 3 fighters and 3 rankings

1-JJr

2-Joe

4D-Popkins

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

From a welshmen, its hopkins by a country mile.........

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

Agree with a lot of this. I am a big Calzaghe fan but even I have to admit that his all-time status tends to get considerably overstated. His legacy wasn't particularly enhanced by either of the RJJ or Hopkins fights. Both were well past their prime (especially RJJ) and the Hopkins fight was a very close one which arguably came down to preferences (flurrying activity vs stinging clean pot shots). His real legacy is built at 168 with the Kessler win, some creditable defences against solid opposition, and a spectacular display against Lacy in a fight that many thought he would lose. He had a very difficult style to cope with, which gets him further points in imagined matchup stakes, but any argument for his being greater the Hopkins and RJJ is, for me, hopelessly misguided. I love Calzaghe and consider him one of the best British fighters there has been, but his greatness compared with those to pales by comparison.

RJJ? Ok, yes. I agree. He's not as great as RJJ. But Hopkins? WHO did he really beat that was A: his own size and B: in his prime?? That he beat a buncha guys who were much younger, that's another thing. Who knows what the guy was using anyway. The thing is, neither of those guys were better than Joe at ADAPTING and reading their opponents, in that subject I have no doubt whatsoever. Joe didn't have the athletic gifts of Jones or the big punch but he was so damn good at making his opponent fight his fight. And he was tough.

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

From a welshmen, its hopkins by a country mile.........

A bad Welshman...:mlol: :nono:

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

RJJ? Ok, yes. I agree. He's not as great as RJJ. But Hopkins? WHO did he really beat that was A: his own size and B: in his prime?? That he beat a buncha guys who were much younger, that's another thing. Who knows what the guy was using anyway. The thing is, neither of those guys were better than Joe at ADAPTING and reading their opponents, in that subject I have no doubt whatsoever. Joe didn't have the athletic gifts of Jones or the big punch but he was so damn good at making his opponent fight his fight. And he was tough.

I would argue that Trinidad, Glen Johnson, William Joppy, Howard Eastman, Robert Allen, Antwun Echols, Keith Holmes are all better wins than Calzaghe's apart from Kessler, Lacy and Reid. You could argue that Mitchell and Brewer are solid wins, and Eubank is also creditable, even though it was late in his career, but then if you factor in Hopkin's late career resurgence vs Wright, Tarver, Pavlik + longevity to win and defend LH titles deep into his 40s, I would say Hopkins has a clearly better resume.

Agree with the other stuff about adapting and making opponent fight his fight. No-one really figured out how to cope with his style over 12 rounds (although Reid and Hopkins had a good go)

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

I would argue that Trinidad, Glen Johnson, William Joppy, Howard Eastman, Robert Allen, Antwun Echols, Keith Holmes are all better wins than Calzaghe's apart from Kessler, Lacy and Reid. You could argue that Mitchell and Brewer are solid wins, and Eubank is also creditable, even though it was late in his career, but then if you factor in Hopkin's late career resurgence vs Wright, Tarver, Pavlik + longevity to win and defend LH titles deep into his 40s, I would say Hopkins has a clearly better resume.

 

Agree with the other stuff about adapting and making opponent fight his fight. No-one really figured out how to cope with his style over 12 rounds (although Reid and Hopkins had a good go)

Johnson was not yet at his best, Trinidad was naturally smaller and not a great defensive fighter, Eastman fight was crap and he kept running from Eastman, Allen and Echols were never more than decent, Joppy was good but he had been thrashed by Trinidad by then. Ok, Trinidad wasn't that much smaller, but he just couldn't cope with Hopkins' style, it was all wrong for him. Oh yeah, and Holmes hadn't fought for a year before that fight, due to a court battle against Don King Crook.

Re: Who is greater: Bernard Hopkins or Joe Calzaghe?

From a welshmen, its hopkins by a country mile.........

To checkmate the Welshman stuff. I go for Joe ;)