Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

1. How much credit does Ben Davidson deserve?

Many questions were asked about Fury's choice of trainer since he split with his uncle, there were many critics but how much did his involvement have to do with Fury's performance?

2. If Fury fought Joshua next say in April, who would you be picking and does Fury deserve a 50/50 split?

Fury called Joshua a coward and taunted him in his post-fight interview but who wins that in April if it were to happen?

3. Who would you pick in an immediate rematch between Wilder and Fury?

A three-way split resulted in both men retaining their unbeaten records but who would you pick in a rematch given what you saw on Saturday?

4. Does anyone know the PPV numbers yet for Saturday night's fight?

Also, whilst I'm here does anyone know if it's possible to create a poll on here? I want to do one before the end of the year but just want to check if it's working as I've not seen one since I joined up?

Thanks

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- First off, incredible pics of the fight here:

Boxing News: Bonus Wilder-Fury Photo Gallery >> December 3, 2018

1. I'd guess Davisons genius was allowing Tyson to be Tyson. Other than a few fights with sanders, he's unproven.

2. 60-40 Josh would be a fair split for a kings ransom. I'd pick Josh to win.

3. Fury demolished his previous two rematches, Wilder would be the third.

4. Don't know the ppv#, but they will be under 400k if I would hazard a guess, maybe 200k.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

1 I dont't think Davison was a massive factor. Fury knows his way around a boxing ring and probably came up with his own strategy and tactics.

2 60/40 split would be right. Joshua wins. Better jab than Wilder, throws more accurately and if Wilder could walk Fury down and sap his resistance I'm damn sure Joshua would as well.

3 Still split on a rematch. I'd lean towards Fury but Wilder could stop him at any time.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Great topic.

1. How much credit does Ben Davidson deserve?

A lot of credit especially for the whole process of keeping Fury focused. They seem to work well together. How good he is tactically?, I don't know. But, he got through the fight and the fighter was listening in the corner. It was a bit mad seeing Freddie Roach and Ricky Hatton in the corner but only Ben speaking. But, it's been Ben with the fighter all the time in the buildup, so he knows more about the fighter.

2. If Fury fought Joshua next say in April, who would you be picking and does Fury deserve a 50/50 split?

I think Joshua has become a smarter, more patient fighter. Looks to work his way in and take his openings. He'll knock Fury out, absolutely convinced. On the split, Fury and the controversial draw will make waves and bring in interest. The fight would always fill Wembley. 50/50 split as both are famous in the UK.

Joshua is not a coward, his promoter calls the shots. With a money machine, it's all about control. Joshua is entering prime years and only going to get better, if he stays as dedicated.

3. Who would you pick in an immediate rematch between Wilder and Fury?

Wilder needs to get new trainers. He's had faults for a long time and they need to be addressed. He has the physical tools. I'd expect him to be far more aggressive in a rematch but Fury should've gotten even better. Hard to call tbh.

4. Does anyone know the PPV numbers yet for Saturday night's fight?

No, but I hope they were decent. The controversy will make better numbers next time - both in the US and UK.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Great topic.

1. How much credit does Ben Davidson deserve?

Tons, IMO. We can't know what his technical knowledge is, since Fury still looked like Fury, but that was the BEST Fury we've ever seen, by a long shot. Therefore, at the very least, Davidson is very good at motivating his fighters to train properly. One thing that might be telling: In the corner, Freddy Roach just stood there and let Davidson run the show. That means Roach has come to respect Davisdon's knowledge. Who are we to argue with Freddy?

It will be interesting to see if Fury can improve his punching technique in his next few fights. That would tell us a LOT about Davidson.

--------------------------

2. If Fury fought Joshua next?

Definitely a 50/50 split, because Fury is he one everybody is talking about right now.

Plus, he has the option to fight Wilder again, so Hearn would have to pony up.

Plus, that fight makes Hearn & AJ at LEAST 10X what any other opponent would, so ....

I can't pick a winner, (Clearly, I can't pick winners in general, so I'm not even going to try this time!) but I'd lean slightly toward Fury, since AJ isn't very mobile.

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3. Who would you pick in an immediate rematch between Wilder and Fury?

Like Rob said, Wilder needs to get new trainers. He's literally gotten worse & more 1-dimensional with every fight over the last 3-4 years.

Sadly, I don't see him ditching Breeland.

I would have to predict another Fury points win in the rematch. (ANOTHER points win. :haha: )

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- Here's the 5th question, is there no end to boxing idiocy?

This is the transcribed scorecard given to the media to publish. You can see the many corrected mistakes that begs the question of what each judge's individual cards must look like. At any rate, go to Judge Tapper's card, and at the final total for Wilder the transcriber seemingly records the correct score at the end of 12 rds before putting the wrong result in the final summation:

And then in comments, Mexican Rochin went for Wilder but added in comments a "DRAW! How much are these apes getting paid for a night on the town?

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

I think it's the ref who's written "draw" not the Mexican judge.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Goodness sake, I wondered how 114-110 was arrived at when I heard the scores but it should have been 114-112 on Tapper's card as can be seen here. But the 'results' bit at the bottom I don't think is anything either of the judge's wrote down but instead the transcriber who is tasked with making the MC's job easier and quicker, writes it there. Interesting to see all 3 gave Wilder the opening round

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- Can't say who the official transcriber is, but We can assume the transcriber filled out the whole card from the handwriting. Regardless, dumb is dummer than a box of rocks if they can't do better in a fight that generated at least $20 mil in revenues.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Interesting to see that if you apply the majority scores for the judges, they give 4 rounds to Wilder and a final total of 112-114 for Fury.

The fightnight scores analysis breakdown only gives Wilder the 2 knockdown rounds as definitive winning rounds, while Fury gets 3 definitive (10s), 6 rounds in his favour and round 4 is tied. The averages are almost identical to the official judges collaborative one however.

[TABLE]

[TD=align: center]JUDGE MAJORITY SCORE

10 - 9

9 - 10

9 - 10

9 - 10

9 - 10

9 - 10

10 - 9

9 - 10

10 - 8

9 - 10

9 - 10

10 - 8

TOTAL

112-114[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[/TR]

As for the original questions:

2. Not sure Fury could command a 50/50 split, but 60-40 is absolutely reasonable. But with all the talk regarding a deal with Wilder stemming mainly about money and split, Hearn will likely give the same kind of bullshit regarding Fury and what he brings to the table. Massive stumbling block, their greed on the Matchroom side.

I think Fury gives AJ plenty of problems, but I also think he can land on Fury better or more succesfully than Wilder did. He might not put Fury down with one, but he might put him down a few times to force a stoppage.

3. It's really tough to call. I thought Wilder fought a bad fight, and if he took some more risks may have got Fury out of there. It's logical that a future Fury, buoyed from this performance and the fanfare he is getting, gets himself into even better condition. It would be the same script! Avoid Wilders bombs for 12 rounds and he will win. But can he avoid them again for 12 rounds, and potentially get up again from any successful ones? I'm not too sure history will repeat itself.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Dont know about 4 questions but I know 2 answers.

1. Fury cant dig

2. Wilder cant box.

...even TUE had it right at 5-0 as per ringside interview. One trick pony, big bomb or fuckall. No plan B. And must technically go down as as a robbery cos Fury was still at least 2pts ahead even after the 2 kd's.

Edit - watched it back twice now, with different family members who hadnt seen it, and each time its clearer Fury was robbed. Too wide to be called 'one of those things'. Good job they could only buy the Mexican judge. Just shows what an ounce of gear and a ho can buy nowadays.....history. Shameless.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Just shows what an ounce of gear and a ho can buy nowadays.....history. Shameless.

I was gutted for Fury at the time, then I calmed down and realised I was feeling sorry for a bigoted drug cheat and stopped giving a shit. I was saying before the fight "Fury's chin is poor but he's got serious heart" - his powers of recovery are even better than Froch's.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- Can't say who the official transcriber is, but We can assume the transcriber filled out the whole card from the handwriting. Regardless, dumb is dummer than a box of rocks if they can't do better in a fight that generated at least $20 mil in revenues.

It's pretty funny that the official tabulator put "Split" then crossed it out and wrote "draw."

Either:

B: He saw the scores quickly, and assumed that 2 judges had given it to Fury, or

B: He has no idea what a split draw is.

Either way, just more absurdity, piled on top of absurdity .........

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- PPV tracking at 300k and gate 17k out of 27k capacity.

Deontay Wilder vs. Tyson Fury tracking at over 300,00 pay-per-view buys - The Ring

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- PPV tracking at 300k and gate 17k out of 27k capacity.

 

Deontay Wilder vs. Tyson Fury tracking at over 300,00 pay-per-view buys - The Ring

Is that good or bad? I'm not sure.

it sounds pretty shit for a HW championship bout, no?

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

realised I was feeling sorry for a bigoted drug cheat

Wasn't Fury done for cocaine rather than any kind of doping? Or am I forgetting something?

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- Fury was butchered clumsily by the BBB of C when he and Hughie tested positive for a "Wild Boar a week" they were training on.

Since he was in the middle of his meltdown, he served his retro applied suspension during that time. Hold ye breath as typically the final "nanogram drug screening" ain't reported until a week or few after the fight...only in boxing!

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Interesting to see that if you apply the majority scores for the judges, they give 4 rounds to Wilder and a final total of 112-114 for Fury.

 

The fightnight scores analysis breakdown only gives Wilder the 2 knockdown rounds as definitive winning rounds, while Fury gets 3 definitive (10s), 6 rounds in his favour and round 4 is tied. The averages are almost identical to the official judges collaborative one however.

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]JUDGE MAJORITY SCORE

10 - 9

9 - 10

9 - 10

9 - 10

9 - 10

9 - 10

10 - 9

9 - 10

10 - 8

9 - 10

9 - 10

10 - 8

 

TOTAL

112-114[/TD]

[TD]

FIGHT SCORE AVG

9 2 - 9.8

9.3 - 9.7

9.2 - 9.8

9.5 - 9.5

9.2 - 9.8

9.2 - 9.8

9 - 10

9 - 10

10 - 8

9 - 10

9.5 - 9.7

10 - 8

 

AVG TOTALS

112.1-114.1

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

 

--- Well done Ton! Me thinks you're on to something bigger and better than the current slop of scoring compiled by grade school IQs

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Wasn't Fury done for cocaine rather than any kind of doping? Or am I forgetting something?

He was done for nandrolone, along with Hughie. They argued it was due to eating uncastrated boar, which is technically feasible but a little convenient. After a protracted battle, they accepted backdated bans.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- Well done Ton! Me thinks you're on to something bigger and better than the current slop of scoring compiled by grade school IQs

It will be interesting to see how using this same logic/comparison works in future big fights where we get some good scorecard figures.

Might be something I implement onto the website, but will take a bit of additional input for the judges cards :ranger:

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- 6. Where should Fury rank after this bout?

Boxrec jumped him #3 below Josh and wilder, but Ring jumped him #2 below Josh and above wilder.

We used to have a poll function as I recall, but damned if I know where it is if it ever existed. What sayeth your rankings?

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

Gotta be above Deyonce who has literally no one of note on his resume, whereas Fury has the K victory.

Deyonce has been found out - hence the avoidance of AJ - the failed basketball player not only cant jump, but cant box either.

Re: Four Questions following Wilder vs Fury

--- 6. Where should Fury rank after this bout?

 

Boxrec jumped him #3 below Josh and wilder, but Ring jumped him #2 below Josh and above wilder.

I love it.