Jump to content

Reason why Selby lost


BoztheMadman
 Share

Recommended Posts

It wasn't just the weight making problem. I been saying this for some time: he needs a better trainer. Tony Borg hasn't learned him to throw his punches to the max, to sit on them. Lee got some power obviously, he knocked out Stephen Smith after all. Smith has since not been knocked out and he's had some tough fights against quality opponents. Selby does have the power but he hasn't been trained right. In his last fights, after he became a champion, he was content to just outwork and outbox his opponents. That's because he knew he couldn't stop them-why? Because he doesn't know how. Not because he CAN'T, but because he just hasn't been taught how to do it. In world class fights it's harder to knock out someone than in lower level fights. He did knock down Barros in the last round, so he clearly does have power because Barros is a tough guy who has only been stopped by Mikey Garcia, in 8 rounds. So, that all proves Lee Selby does have the power to stop almost anyone but what he doesn't have is the right trainer to teach him how do throw his punches.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

I tend to agree with this to a certain extent, Boz but its not the entire picture. The cuts, lets not forget he had two, one much worse than the other admittedly, played a big part too with the adrenaline rush. This was compounded by the weight/stamina issues and I agree Tony (bless him, a man who almost lost as many fights as he won himself) has taken him as far as he can - and how difficult is it going to be to say "thanks Tony but I'm off now mate" from a lad from the backstreets of Barry. But that's about the top and bottom of it. He needs to move onwards and upwards now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

I tend to agree with this to a certain extent, Boz but its not the entire picture. The cuts, lets not forget he had two, one much worse than the other admittedly, played a big part too with the adrenaline rush. This was compounded by the weight/stamina issues and I agree Tony (bless him, a man who almost lost as many fights as he won himself) has taken him as far as he can - and how difficult is it going to be to say "thanks Tony but I'm off now mate" from a lad from the backstreets of Barry. But that's about the top and bottom of it. He needs to move onwards and upwards now.

Yes, I know. Not a bad word about Tony otherwise, but he has his limits and Lee needs a better guidance. And also, recently, Tony has married so he has been busy with other things, his mind hasn't been all in boxing. I know because I follow him on facebook. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Selby sacrifices power for movement. That would be fine if it made him an elusive boxer but to be honest for someone with his speed and style he's fairly easy to hit. A better trainer might be able to balance the contrasting styles. Brendan Ingle fighters were always pretty adept at this so maybe a move to Sheffield would be a one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Selby sacrifices power for movement. That would be fine if it made him an elusive boxer but to be honest for someone with his speed and style he's fairly easy to hit. A better trainer might be able to balance the contrasting styles. Brendan Ingle fighters were always pretty adept at this so maybe a move to Sheffield would be a one.

 

Maybe...Shane McGuigan has been having success lately too. But I guess Ingle's have a longer tradition and have trained more famous fighters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Selby sacrifices power for movement. That would be fine if it made him an elusive boxer but to be honest for someone with his speed and style he's fairly easy to hit. A better trainer might be able to balance the contrasting styles. Brendan Ingle fighters were always pretty adept at this so maybe a move to Sheffield would be a one.

 

 

 

Good point. Purposefully going for speed over power only works if you have elite defense to go with it.

 

And the other thing is, you need to occasionally throw a power shot, or else your opponent is eventually going to just walk you down. Selby needs to learn how to plant that back foot, deliver a single power shot, then instantly GTF out of Dodge.

 

Who did Brendan Ingle train?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Good point. Purposefully going for speed over power only works if you have elite defense to go with it.

 

And the other thing is, you need to occasionally throw a power shot, or else your opponent is eventually going to just walk you down. Selby needs to learn how to plant that back foot, deliver a single power shot, then instantly GTF out of Dodge.

 

Who did Brendan Ingle train?

 

Herol Graham, Johnny Nelson, Naseem Hamed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

At 31 years old, moving up in weight, not sure how much more improvement Lee will get from a new trainer. Could be one of those moments where he probably should've made the switch a couple years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

The most worrying facts for me in the fight was how he lost the fight, it was far too easy for Warrington. And that it was evident that the current tactics weren't working and they didn't seem to change as the fight went on.

 

You don't become a bad trainer over night and Borg's done well with Lee. I'd just put it down to a bad night, I think changing trainers is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Everyone said Cleverly needed to change trainers and he did, look how that turned out!

 

He lost, so what? regroup, learn from it and improve.

 

I also don't think moving up weight is the answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

The most worrying facts for me in the fight was how he lost the fight, it was far too easy for Warrington. And that it was evident that the current tactics weren't working and they didn't seem to change as the fight went on.

 

You don't become a bad trainer over night and Borg's done well with Lee. I'd just put it down to a bad night, I think changing trainers is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Everyone said Cleverly needed to change trainers and he did, look how that turned out!

 

He lost, so what? regroup, learn from it and improve.

 

I also don't think moving up weight is the answer.

 

I think Warrington put on an unprecidented display as well, buoyed by the crowd. He was rampant and relentless, put Selby on the back foot and kept coming. He was awkward and swarming, I think Selby was simply over whelmed. His defence didn't keep Warrington at bay, and then he suffered some cuts and got roughed up a bit, it was an uncomfortable night for him.

 

The weight issue might have been part of it, but it was down to gameplan and execution more than anything for me.

 

As mentioned in the other thread regarding Selby's weigh issue. Moving up might give him some more energy and stamina as he won't be as drained, but I don't see how he will find any more power, and he will be up against even bigger guys, if only slightly more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

The most worrying facts for me in the fight was how he lost the fight, it was far too easy for Warrington. And that it was evident that the current tactics weren't working and they didn't seem to change as the fight went on.

 

You don't become a bad trainer over night and Borg's done well with Lee. I'd just put it down to a bad night, I think changing trainers is a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Everyone said Cleverly needed to change trainers and he did, look how that turned out!

 

He lost, so what? regroup, learn from it and improve.

 

I also don't think moving up weight is the answer.

 

I don't know why, but Lee just happened to take more chances before and his power started showing when he stopped Smith and Simpson and Munroe. But then he again reverted to boxing instead of punching, boxing and moving. It just seemed like the punches he landed had lost their steam and his gameplan was to outwork his opponents instead of breaking them down. I don't know wether it was because he stepped up in class but not all his opponents since then have been top notch. However, if you listened to what Jamie Moore and Carl Frampton said in the podcast with Costello and Bunce, they were critical of Selby's corner, how they didn't really give him enough boost or offer useful advice after he was being beaten up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Wasn't mentioned here, but that judge that had it 2 points in Selby's favor is either blind or extremely incompetent.

 

Agreed there was no way any of them could have scored it a draw, or within a point maybe 2. Was clear and decisive, and not much was made of this card.

 

But it's another case where the fight-score concept, while not putting things right, or avoiding these poor scorecards, but it would go someway to explaining what it was that the judge saw to score the rounds to Selby.

 

Need to keep banging this drum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Have been to Tony Borg's gym many, many times and seen the work he puts in. Excellent trainer, who gets the most out of fighters. His gym have won titles at every level.

 

To suggest that Tony can't show boxers how to throw punches properly is, frankly, absurd.

 

The boxers at his gym have won the following: World Amateur Championships (Silver and Bronze), European Amateur Championships (Gold), Commonwealth Games (Gold), Olympics (Silver). Plus Welsh and British titles.

 

At professional level, his boxers have won Welsh, British, Commonwealth, European and World titles. Also won a Prizefighter tournament.

 

Not a shabby record.

 

I think Barry McGuigan put it best

Under-appreciated Borg deserves more recognition, says legend McGuigan

Under-appreciated Borg deserves more recognition, says legend McGuigan | South Wales Argus

 

Here are Barry's thoughts in the article: “Tony is an ex-pro and obviously a smart man who knows what it takes to get guys through,” said McGuigan.

 

“He can teach guys to be switch-hitters, he can teach them to be clever boxers, and the name of the game when you begin is stance, guard and footwork.

 

“He teaches the fundamentals really well and also teaches flair, and he can also teach guys to fight aggressively.

 

“He is very clever at what he does and he knows how much I think of him as a coach.

 

“He’s a bit of an unsung hero and I think he should get more recognition.

 

“I would never say he is under-rated, but I think he is under-appreciated.”

 

“You don’t need great facilities but if you have a gym with loads of positivity and competition, and a good coach, then bang, you’ve hit it.

 

“You can produce champions over and over again, like St Joseph’s in Newport.

 

“You’ve got Joe Cordina down and he’s going to go on to the Olympic Games, and that enlivens the area.

 

“Everybody feels good about that, especially if there is high unemployment and not much money around, and it gives people hope.

 

“They want to be associated with that and things start to spiral and gain momentum, and more kids come to the club.

 

“It’s not rocket science, it just happens, and you don’t have to have great facilities.

 

“You just need one little room with enthusiasm, drive and determination, and you’ve got that with Tony Borg.

 

“You have the flag bearers like Lee Selby, Andrew Selby, Gary Buckland and Joe Cordina, and things spiral off from that and on and on and on it goes.”

-------------------------------

 

Lee spoke to the BBC about his loss and I think his explanation is there for everyone to see and understand.

 

Lee Selby: Welshman wanted big payday before Josh Warrington loss

Welsh boxer Lee Selby says making the featherweight weight limit has "taken its toll" and he only stayed in the division for "a big pay day".

 

Selby, 31, was left heavily bloodied by Leeds' Josh Warrington, who claimed the IBF world title at Elland Road.

 

Selby said he would not fight at the nine-stone level again and instead pursue a title at a heavier weight.

 

"I lost and I think it is time for me to move up the weights," Selby told BBC Radio Wales.

 

Selby, who was cut above both eyes by accidental head clashes inside the first six rounds, could not recover from a superb start by Yorkshireman Warrington, who took a stunning split-decision victory contest 116-112 115-113 113-115.

 

Having been an overwhelming favourite heading into the fight, Selby now admits it has been a long time since he has boxed at his best, despite successful title defences against Fernando Montiel, Eric Hunter, Jonathan Victor Barros and Eduardo Ramirez, since winning the title in 2015.

 

Defeat was the second of Selby's career as Britain's longest-reigning world champion lost in his fifth defence.

 

"I am 31 and getting to the nine-stone limit has obviously taken its toll over the years," said Selby.

 

"I think it's shown in my last few performances - they have been well below par, well below the standards I set for myself.

 

"Luckily I've scraped through with my fitness and my skillset, but it was just a matter of time."

 

Selby was tipped for a summer showdown with Carl Frampton had he been victorious in Leeds, and says it is the prospect of a big pay day that has kept him in the featherweight division.

 

"I had to stay in the featherweight division because of the high profile and big-money fights that were waiting for me if I got past that last fight," he said.

 

"But unfortunately I didn't, so now I've got to try and win a world title at a different weight.

 

"My average weight walking around is 11 and a half stone, around Christmas I was almost 12 stone, so getting down to nine is a big drop for me."

 

Vision issues made it harder to adapt

Selby's defeat prompted criticism from ringside observers, including domestic rival Frampton and BBC Radio 5 live summariser Steve Bunce.

 

"I think Selby and his team need to go away and re-evaluate - they all take a bit of the blame. Selby never adapted, never changed tactics. His body language was wrong and he was constantly complaining," Frampton said.

 

Bunce added: "The Selby camp need to be taking some long, hard looks at themselves. How did they get it wrong for so many rounds?"

 

However, Selby says the problems he faced on the night were because of the issues he had making weight and the cuts above both eyes that made it hard for him to see.

 

"It was disheartening, no-one wants to lose," he explained.

 

"I was unfortunate to get caught with a clash of heads early on, so I had a bad cut above my eye and the blood was running into my eyes, so I could hardly see during the fight.

 

"But I will crack on and get another world title."

 

Source: Lee Selby: Welshman wanted big payday before Josh Warrington loss - BBC Sport

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Still, I claim Borg hasn't trained him well enough when it comes to utilizing his power. Maybe it takes a lot to teach him that, maybe. I think you also are sentimentally too close to Borg to be unbiased judge. ;-)

 

Barry McGuigan isn't sentimentally attached - did you ignore his comments, cos they didn't suit your uneducated ones? Is Barry McGuigan lieing? Does Boz know more than Barry? Has Boz ever been in a boxing gym? What are these answers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

I find it alarming that fighters are being allowed or even encouraged to drop three stone in the course of a few months - it can't be healthy and it should be the responsibility of the training staff and management to protect the fighters from themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

I find it alarming that fighters are being allowed or even encouraged to drop three stone in the course of a few months - it can't be healthy and it should be the responsibility of the training staff and management to protect the fighters from themselves.

 

Could be because their World trinket bring's in money, so they hold on as long as they can. Sad but true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Wasn't mentioned here, but that judge that had it 2 points in Selby's favor is either blind or extremely incompetent.

 

 

Probably Adelaide Byrd's cousin.

 

Not blind, not incompetent, just corrupt.

 

Heck, the other 2 judges were also a bit off, but at least they were in the ballpark.

Edited by Cableaddict
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Barry McGuigan isn't sentimentally attached - did you ignore his comments, cos they didn't suit your uneducated ones? Is Barry McGuigan lieing? Does Boz know more than Barry? Has Boz ever been in a boxing gym? What are these answers?

 

Yes but maybe he still is being a bit too kind. You think celebrities always say 100% exactly what they mean about other known people? And please, refrain from childish reactions and insults. By the way, Barry also said Eubank was the best British fighter of his time-shall I also think so just because he said it? He was always friends with Chris sr.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Yes but maybe he still is being a bit too kind. You think celebrities always say 100% exactly what they mean about other known people? And please, refrain from childish reactions and insults. By the way, Barry also said Eubank was the best British fighter of his time-shall I also think so just because he said it? He was always friends with Chris sr.

Not childish, I asked you questions and you haven't answered. Don't avoid them, we can all see what you're doing, with your tricks. Answer the questions. Don't be baby.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Reason why Selby lost

 

Not childish, I asked you questions and you haven't answered. Don't avoid them, we can all see what you're doing, with your tricks. Answer the questions. Don't be baby.

 

Tricks?? I don't follow you. What questions? Oh that...no, I haven't been in the ring. But Jamie and Carl have. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...