2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

This is something that bothers me every time I hear it and it has forced me to write a post to vent about it. 2 fighters. in a made up world with made up names that are completely made up and any similarity to any real or fictional fighters is completely unintentional..

Fighter #1 wins a belt [for example wbc and let's call him Muhamed 'I'm Ard' BruceLee] he becomes a one time world champion.

Say they then unify and grab the IBF title, they would become a two time world champion, right? Maybe they then defend their belt and win, Continue to defend and win for 10 years but never get anymore belts except the two. So they have defended their belt for say 20-30 title fights and won all of them making them a world champion for 10 years undefeated..

They remain a two time world champion. A hell of a champion with loads of defenses and probably highly regarded as P4P#1 but still a 'two time world champion' by the wording used in fight sports by most people today..

http://i.imgur.com/FyviLMTm.jpg

Then you have another guy, he wins a world title [say WBA and let's call him 'The Inconspicuous' Colin McGregor']. He defends it once but gets beaten on his first defense. A year later he manages to get another title shot and wins. He's now a two time world champion right.. So say he does that a load of times, win a title but loses the first defense of it [which some consider harder]. Maybe he does it 6 times, losing world titles on his first defense but gets it back, vacates a few but wins them back say 9 times over 10 years. People will call him a '9 time world champion'

Let's say that one day our two fighters meet. They argue over which one is more successful and by anyone's logic it will be fighter #1 right? I think so anyway and I'm sure anyone with any sense will agree.

But fighter #2 is going around bragging about being the '9 time world champion' that's loads better than the '2 time world champion'.. and to anyone who doesn't have access to the records and stats or is just a casual fan '9 time' sounds loads better than '2 time'.. it's simple, 9 is better than 2.. unless you're playing golf..

http://i.imgur.com/NT9qr7Wm.jpg

If one of them moved up/down in weight and won another title then they would be called a multiple weight world champion which is another thing all together and easy to classify but this isn't my issue.

Anyway I know this is a bit long winded and maybe confusing as hell lol but I just hear '1,2,3,4,5 time world champion' being talked about all the time but there's no consistency in it and I don't understand why it's not made clear somewhere so we can be consistent and compare fighters properly.. Maybe if a fighter defended a belt 3 times then he could be classed as a 3 time champ in the record books and a guy who lost a title and won it 4 times wouldn't look better than a guy who defended his title successfully 4 times..

I'm very pedantic sometimes or maybe I'm just insane.. but has anyone else ever thought about this?? :mnuts::mnuts::mnuts:

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

I like this rant, but I am not sure the way you said it applies?

I didn't think that someone would be regarded as a "Two Time" champion if they simply add another belt to their haul. It's still their first reign, but they have become a unified champion. And I think it also applies if they went up (or down) to another division and won a belt there.

What you ARE correct on though is when people emphasis the fact somneone is a "THREE TIME" world champion. It essentially means he got beat or relenquished a belt at some point, so it's not really something to shout about, although they were around at the top of the division enough to reassert that position.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

I like this rant, but I am not sure the way you said it applies?

 

I didn't think that someone would be regarded as a "Two Time" champion if they simply add another belt to their haul. It's still their first reign, but they have become a unified champion. And I think it also applies if they went up (or down) to another division and won a belt there.

 

What you ARE correct on though is when people emphasis the fact somneone is a "THREE TIME" world champion. It essentially means he got beat or relenquished a belt at some point, so it's not really something to shout about, although they were around at the top of the division enough to reassert that position.

Yeh you're right about that he wouldn't be called a two time champion which does really just further the point. It's something that's always bugged me all the way back to watching WWF as a kid.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Yeh you're right about that he wouldn't be called a two time champion which does really just further the point. It's something that's always bugged me all the way back to watching WWF as a kid.

Sorry, to clear up , jumping weights and gaining a title SHOULD be classed as a new title/reign. So in Mayweathers case he is a 6 weight, and therefore 6 time champion. The "6 Weight" terminology is generally used in these impressive cases where they won title after title in multiple divisons.

In the case of heavyweights they don't get this luxury! They were either a long reigning champion (only Rocky Marciano) or a 2, 3, 4, 5 times world champ!

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

--- Not to put too fine a point on it, but retirement before regaining a title again counts as much as a loss and regain is.

So I'd guess TUE is a 9x champ and Manny even more from a few losses, but clearly this becomes a regression more suited to idiot savant savagery of stats.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

worth looking at while on the subject of multiple weight Champs..

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

worth looking at while on the subject of multiple weight Champs..

That is some Top 10 of fighters. Wonder if the UK could even make a Top 10 list?

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

That is some Top 10 of fighters. Wonder if the UK could even make a Top 10 list?

It would be almost entirely filled with fighters from the last 10 years

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

--- Thought TUE was only a 5 weight champ. Oscar a 6 weight champ and manny the first 7 and 8 weight champ and now tonight we have the first Cinco de Mayo champ for all you connoisseurs!

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

--- Thought TUE was only a 5 weight champ. Oscar a 6 weight champ and manny the first 7 and 8 weight champ and now tonight we have the first Cinco de Mayo champ for all you connoisseurs!

He's only a five weight champion because of the shameless targeting of Arturo Gatti for an easy win, so I'd bump him down to four. I'd take lightweight off Pacquiao for David Diaz too.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Interesting post. We also have to bear in mind how much more easier it is for smaller fighters to jump up divisions when the differences in weight are much smaller compared to the more heavier classes.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

He's only a five weight champion because of the shameless targeting of Arturo Gatti for an easy win, so I'd bump him down to four. I'd take lightweight off Pacquiao for David Diaz too.

Is that fair.. if he hadn't given him a face transplant would we say that?

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Is that fair.. if he hadn't given him a face transplant would we say that?

Yes, I said the same at the time - Gatti was not a world-class fighter, just an exciting one.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Yes, I said the same at the time - Gatti was not a world-class fighter, just an exciting one.

I was talking about Manny dissecting David Diaz. Agree with you on the other

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

I was talking about Manny dissecting David Diaz. Agree with you on the other

Oh sorry, well again yes - I love Erik Morales but thought his attempt to claim to be the first Mexican four-weight world champion by beating Diaz was similarly cynical and cherrypicked(not to mention Morales hadn't done anything to earn a shot at any such title). I was actually pleased they robbed him on the cards - it seemed fitting.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Oh sorry, well again yes - I love Erik Morales but thought his attempt to claim to be the first Mexican four-weight world champion by beating Diaz was similarly cynical and cherrypicked(not to mention Morales hadn't done anything to earn a shot at any such title). I was actually pleased they robbed him on the cards - it seemed fitting.

So you meant Morales not Pacquiao? I'm getting confused mate lol

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

So you meant Morales not Pacquiao? I'm getting confused mate lol

I'm giving context - I felt an old Erik Morales was being cynical in choosing David Diaz to claim another weight as world champion. A prime Manny Pacquiao doing the same thing was ridiculous - blatant cherrypicking, just like so many top fighters these days.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

--- Diaz was a Ring ranked fighter with a hard won belt and had an open date to match Manny's debut at LW.

I'd tell you to study up but you have proven to be intractable in that regard.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

It would be almost entirely filled with fighters from the last 10 years

Duke Mckenzie and Bob Fitzsimmons fighting for top spot :)

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

--- Diaz was a Ring ranked fighter with a hard won belt and had an open date to match Manny's debut at LW.

 

I'd tell you to study up but you have proven to be intractable in that regard.

Ohh he was Ring-ranked! The Ring rankings owned by GoldenBoy Promotions, which you so frequently deride.

Ring currently ranks Tyson Fury as its heavyweight champion, despite his holding no belts, having his licence revoked,not fighting for over a year, in treatment for mental health issues and awaiting the outcome of a drugs hearing. Joshua is #1 and #2 is Deontay Wilder.

He could be ranked #1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine, it wouldn't stop him being a weak token champion.

Hard won?? He got the belt by post after winning the interim in his previous fight, against the legendary Jorge Santa Cruz. Morales was his first defence and he didn't even really win that. After losing it to Pacquiao, he never regained it, losing as he did to the antique Humberto Soto.

You were saying?

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Duke Mckenzie and Bob Fitzsimmons fighting for top spot :)

You mad? Spencer Fearon and Clifton Mitchell be topping that bad boy..

Duke McKenzie beat a guy called Elvis Parsley FTW

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Yes, I said the same at the time - Gatti was not a world-class fighter, just an exciting one.

I've always said that as well. What great fighter did he ever beat? About the best you can do is the likes of Tracy Patterson, Gabe Ruelas, etc. and he lost to questionable opposition like Angel Manfredy and Ivan Robinson twice. If he was as good as many of his diehard fans insisted, he'd have beat that level of opposition handily.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

I've always said that as well. What great fighter did he ever beat? About the best you can do is the likes of Tracy Patterson, Gabe Ruelas, etc. and he lost to questionable opposition like Angel Manfredy and Ivan Robinson twice. If he was as good as many of his diehard fans insisted, he'd have beat that level of opposition handily.

Do they actually claim that though, I've spoken to a few and I'm a bit of a Gatti fan myself but I thought it was generally agreed his excitement outweighed his talent?

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

Originally Posted by LondonRingRules

--- Diaz was a Ring ranked fighter with a hard won belt and had an open date to match Manny's debut at LW.

 

I'd tell you to study up but you have proven to be intractable in that regard.

 

 

Ohh he was Ring-ranked! The Ring rankings owned by GoldenBoy Promotions, which you so frequently deride.

 

Ring currently ranks Tyson Fury as its heavyweight champion, despite his holding no belts, having his licence revoked,not fighting for over a year, in treatment for mental health issues and awaiting the outcome of a drugs hearing. Joshua is #1 and #2 is Deontay Wilder.

 

He could be ranked #1 pound for pound by Ring Magazine, it wouldn't stop him being a weak token champion.

 

Hard won?? He got the belt by post after winning the interim in his previous fight, against the legendary Jorge Santa Cruz. Morales was his first defence and he didn't even really win that. After losing it to Pacquiao, he never regained it, losing as he did to the antique Humberto Soto.

 

You were saying?

--- What I said changes nothing. Still rather to the unstudied side of the ledger you remain, perhaps a permanent reminder of your inability to apply context to any boxing discussion.

Originally Posted by LondonRingRules

--- Diaz was a Ring ranked fighter with a hard won belt and had an open date to match Manny's debut at LW.

I'd tell you to study up but you have proven to be intractable in that regard.

Re: 2,3,4,5,6 time world champion!!!

context

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Diaz was a weak champion in the same way as Gatti and was chosen for the same reason of cheap glory. no further context is required.