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Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?


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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

@Ton

 

To be honest I think there should be less categories available as "reasons" for scoring rounds. It may be a problem in the future if you enabled statistics. Some people may choose different reasons having exactly the same thing in my mind.

 

Landed cleaner shots/ Landed more effective shots/Landed heavier shots should be the same category for me.

I'm not sure about "effective body shots" and "good use of jab" as being the seperate categories, either.

 

I'd personally leave:

- knockdown

- had opponent in trouble

- dominated most of the round

- landed more effective/cleaner blows

- controlled the action

- effective counter-punching

- more active

- on the front foot

- good defensive work

- even round

 

Docking points shouldn't be a reason either as in boxing we deduct points from the general score, not individual round (10- point must system). This should be available as seperate feature, not exactly a reason for scoring.

 

This will leave us with 10 reasons. I think it's OK. It's better for us not to have too much reasons if we want to reach consensus when it comes to scoring.

 

These are my suggestions ;-) Good luck!

 

Thanks for this feedback, and I am in full agreement with you!! All those reasons that you mentioned (apart from the docked points) were additional ones I added in last week.

 

I originally set out for a small list of reasons enough to cover the likely scenarios that occur in rounds with none that were contradictory, or there was obvious differences for those that were somewhat similar.

 

However, after sitting watching fights a bit I found myself using "landed cleaner shots" for the most part and thought it could possibly be a bit more descriptive. But I agree, when they are all very similar, it could be a bit off putting.

 

I think I was half thinking about how those reasons can still be used ineffectively by a bad judge, when the reality is that human error/decision cannot actually be "cured". There will always be bad decisions made, even with this concept in place. Maybe I was adding more as a way to assess the judges performance, in making sure they were actually paying attention so what kind of scoring shots they saw.

 

I will revert to that list you have mentioned above, which was essentially the original list, or there abouts.

 

I might leave in the points deducted reason though, which MAY be used in the instace where literally hardly any action happened. Maybe it was cagey, a hug fest and a fighter had been hitting round the back of the head for a bit..and it happened again in this blandest of rounds, the ref deducts the point. If it wasn't for that, and due to the lack of action with no splitting them it would have been 10-10....but the point deduction is sole reason it becomes 10-9. :thumb:

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

***UPDATE***

 

I have made significant progress these last few weeks so now the system is in place ready for some proper usage.

 

I have deployed the system live onto the website, so we have more than just a scorecard concept.

 

People can now register an account in order to save their scorecards.

 

More work and tweaking still needs to be done, for instance I want to display the fight archives in a better way, with better formatting, but these adjustments will always be happening over time.

 

The next challenge, apart from getting it out there and people using it, will be the whole fight analysis system, bringing together all the scorecard data to generate graphical data displaying how the community socred the rounds.

 

Really need as many testers / user as possible to generate some good data and also to provide feedback.

 

So please go and check it out: Fight Score - The Boxing Scorecard with Reasoning

 

 

Thanks all :thumb:

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

I have two issues with Fight Score so far:

- on my dashboard, I have wrong results ascribed to fights I've scored.

screenshot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

When I click 'view this scorecard' everything's correct.

- I think point deductions need some handling. First of all, no edits are available and it's easy to forget to acknowledge a point deduction initially. I had to score Barrera v Valera again from a scratch, because I had forgotten to do so in the 9th round. I also think another issue is that when we have a 9-9 round and you give a reason for the score, you don't know to which fighter this reason is ascribed to. This is why I think deductions should be available after completion of the whole scorecard.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with any improvements and I wish the site would get more recognition ;-)

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

I have two issues with Fight Score so far:

- on my dashboard, I have wrong results ascribed to fights I've scored.

screenshot: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

When I click 'view this scorecard' everything's correct.

- I think point deductions need some handling. First of all, no edits are available and it's easy to forget to acknowledge a point deduction initially. I had to score Barrera v Valera again from a scratch, because I had forgotten to do so in the 9th round. I also think another issue is that when we have a 9-9 round and you give a reason for the score, you don't know to which fighter this reason is ascribed to. This is why I think deductions should be available after completion of the whole scorecard.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with any improvements and I wish the site would get more recognition ;-)

 

Again thanks for your feedback Pittbox.

 

I have been having some headaches with displaying scorecards and getting through the correct data, though I thought it had the correct ones for the user on their Dashboard, so I will look into that a bit more.

 

Agree with the edits part, I have made a mistake in the past and not been able to undo a score or whatever. This will be tricky to do but I will add it to the list of improvements.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

So there was just some ordering issue with the out of sync scores. Silly mistake by me!

 

Anyway I have made the system a bit more robust and it's starting to feel like a pretty solid system now.

 

A few issues and niggles still outstanding which I hope to resolve this week. One being issues with the email set up, so people cant currently reset their password. That could be a tricky one to fix, but i'll get there.

 

I will be concentrating next on two parts:

 

Twitter Interaction:

Currently when a user finishes their scorecard a tweet button appears. I want to make it a bit more interactive so that the user can tweet round scores as they score them for a bit more of a timeline of how they see the fight on their Twitter feed.

 

In future I may add a feature of "Autotweet". Currently it is a simple script which is triggered by user interaction. I could progress it with the Twitter API so that IF the user has auto tweet selected their scores are auto tweeted without them having to click any generated tweet buttons. With this feature I should be able to also include a screen grab image of their scorecard which will be tweeted also.

 

 

Fight Analysis:

The statistical part of the system. Generating fight breakdowns by round based off the scorecards created. This might be the most complex part of the entire thing, so might take some time to do. It will also only really be of any use if quite a number of people start using it to generate some good data statistics.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

--- I'd start it off in the KISS format, keep it simple, stupid, my personal philosophy in life.

 

Make it simple to use, simple to log in, and simple to score, and then make those functions dead reliable before patching on any complications. That's how Henry Ford made his model T into a success.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

--- I'd start it off in the KISS format, keep it simple, stupid, my personal philosophy in life.

 

Make it simple to use, simple to log in, and simple to score, and then make those functions dead reliable before patching on any complications. That's how Henry Ford made his model T into a success.

 

That is indeed the plan LRR, and I believe it is simple to use in the current guise. I aim to make things look a bit neater and better over time, but the actual scorecard part I am fairly happy with.

 

The addition of the social media integration is two-fold. 1 to allow people to interact with fellow boxing twitterati, and to also help with spreading recognition and awareness of its existence, which is the mot difficult thing to achieve.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

--- Just scored Rigormortis vs Loma by memory, 60-52 that should be good since I didn't give rigormortis a single round.

 

I thought of the 10 categories, we could pick multiple ones to better reflect the round. If we can't, that's the first change I would make.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

--- Just scored Rigormortis vs Loma by memory, 60-52 that should be good since I didn't give rigormortis a single round.

 

I thought of the 10 categories, we could pick multiple ones to better reflect the round. If we can't, that's the first change I would make.

 

Thanks for giving it a whirl, Bobby! Good to see you managed to use the thing effectively. I hope you found it okay to use. In theory its not such a complicated thing system, but there are always unforseen problems and issues for people of different technical abilities, and as the only developer (and as such, tester), it is pretty tricky to test a product you have created yourself.

 

For what it's worth here's the link to your scorecard: Bobby Mac's scorecard for Vasyl Lomachenko vs Guillermo Rigondeaux -

10 Dec 2017. You can always see your scorecards from your dashboard and link to them via the URL if you wished to post them in the forum on the relevant topics.

 

Re: your suggestion about allowing multiple options, I wholly agree to an extent it could be useful, for a clearer picture of what you saw. I had hoped to try and devise the system so that one reason and one reason only would be enough to distinguish how the round went. But as I have scored more and more fights with it, there are certain rounds where several of the reasons could all be used.

 

In theory it'd be nice to add multiple reasons, but the current system works. There only needs to really be ONE sole reason why a fighter can be awarded a round (remember this is a method, ideally for judges to be using). If several of those reasons listed could infact be used as the reason then its pretty much a clear round in that case and you just use your preferential reason in that instance.

 

Furthermore, my next integration is "fight analysis". This will show a graph for each round showing the different reasons given for each fighter. Of course for this to be of any use it will need a good number of users.....If that happened it could potentially make some quite interesting reading as to how the round reasons breakdown.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

 

Furthermore, my next integration is "fight analysis". This will show a graph for each round showing the different reasons given for each fighter. Of course for this to be of any use it will need a good number of users.....If that happened it could potentially make some quite interesting reading as to how the round reasons breakdown.

 

3-10 users for smaller events and 10-20 users for bigger ones would be fine numbers for me. To have a lot of users it can mean two bad things:

- too many scores being just the copy of what commentators are seeing

- too many scorers giving rounds automatically to their prefered fighter

 

I'd want the site to stay oriented on more dedicated fans, but of course we need more than what you have now .

 

In the hypothetical situation of having more users it could be a good idea to implement some kind of rank of users. You'd get points for scoring a lot of fights, but primarily for consistency with other scorers.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

3-10 users for smaller events and 10-20 users for bigger ones would be fine numbers for me. To have a lot of users it can mean two bad things:

- too many scores being just the copy of what commentators are seeing

- too many scorers giving rounds automatically to their prefered fighter

 

I'd want the site to stay oriented on more dedicated fans, but of course we need more than what you have now .

 

In the hypothetical situation of having more users it could be a good idea to implement some kind of rank of users. You'd get points for scoring a lot of fights, but primarily for consistency with other scorers.

 

Well the hope is to promote this idea of including the reasoning amongst scorecards to the masses. So in that regard it would be good if there were 100s or even 1000s of users. But thats getting a bit ahead of ourselves.

 

There COULD be the possibility of a top X number of users averages/round breakdowns.....A bit like on the IMDB they show something like the "top 100" users breakdowns of film scores.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

When I click "analysis" I get something like that:

 

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

More like the magic of coding!!

 

I have been doin some testing and work on the analysis section, and that kind of screen should only be seen by me really, but maybe I just pushed some production code onto the live site by mistake.....I can get that cleared up in a bit, hopefully.

 

Fucking multidimensional arrays :whistle:

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Afternoon all,

So I have made quite a breakthrough this weekend, and finished up the Analysis section.

 

Well at least the initial version of it. There is always scope for change and improvement.

 

I had to really get my head around how to put data into verious arrays, which could then be passed into some Chart generation code, which can they be output to the screen.

 

It really jumbled my head up many a time I came to looking into it, but I perservered with it this weekend and cracked it!

 

Now obviously for there to be any useful data means it needs many more users, and it could really show what the viewers are seeing taking place. I believe with the analysis in place it could really separate Fight Score from the other scorecard websites and apps out there.

 

Here is an example of the fight analysis compiled for Lomachenko vs Rigondeaux

 

Unfortunately it wasn't the best of fights to split out rounds for each fighter since Loma dominated. But you can expand each round to see the percentage of people awarding the round to each fighter, and then below this the reasons that were given for each fighter.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

--- I tried to start a new registration, but the system said my email address was already taken.

 

So I applied for a password reset and got this message:

"We have e-mailed your password reset link!"

 

Only I never got the email, but that Saturday I also didn't get the emails of some images from my library until Sunday. I still don't have fightscore and not sure if the code would be valid at this late date if I find it when I return home. I'll try again and see what happens.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

--- I tried to start a new registration, but the system said my email address was already taken.

 

So I applied for a password reset and got this message:

"We have e-mailed your password reset link!"

 

Only I never got the email, but that Saturday I also didn't get the emails of some images from my library until Sunday. I still don't have fightscore and not sure if the code would be valid at this late date if I find it when I return home. I'll try again and see what happens.

 

 

Hopefully it is just some kind of delay with the email, but you should also check the spam/junk folder. These emails often find their way into there, annoyingly.

 

Again though, as I have said before I can see you signed up using a gmail web address. You can click the "Sign in with Google" option. If you are already logged into your google mail you wont need to enter a password. It simply links up your existing account you based off the email address.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Next Developments

 

Scorecard Improvements

 

An important and useful upgrade to the scorecard functionality itself is the ability to "undo" your last action. We all make mistakes, and currently once you have added your score and reason, you can't undo it. That poses a problem when, for example you are at round 10, you go & confirm your score and reason and you realise you didn't change the score from 10 / 10. The only way to adjust this is to restart the scorecard in a new browser window and copy your card.

 

I was hopeful that the 2-step process (Confirm score, confirm score & reason) along with the reason highlighting functionality, would be sufficient in stopping mistakes from happening. But I have realised that with familiarity and repetition comes lapses in concentration and thus you are prone to these basic mistakes.

 

I don't want to be able to undo all scores and reasoning, as this could lead to abuses such as adjustments to earlier rounds to level up fights. Thinking in terms of having this in place for official judging that would be a huge issue and an opportunity for corruption. Of course a log system could be made, so that some "judge adjudicator" can see where the judges may have edited their earlier scores. But that is in the future.

 

Solution: I will create an "actions" system that can record the latest action you took (I.e track the scores and the reason for the last round), and allow the ability to undo it. For the time being I will only allow this to happen for the last round only and see how that works. People will usually be aware of their mistake right after the fact, not really from memory as they look back over the card. In that instance there is no solution to an unnoticed mistake.

 

Dashboard & User Profiles

 

I want to make the dashboard section a bit neater and more meaningful to the user. This is the users personal dashboard only accessible by a logged in member. Now that the analysis is in place I will add an analysis section for quick links to the latest fights with analysis data (or at least the same fights a user has produced a scorecard for).

 

Also I will make a public "profile" which will display a users scorecards. This link can then be shared by our members to others they want to show any scorecards to, or on their social accounts.

 

This users section and dashboard will be further enhanced in future. I will encorporate a "friend" system so that users can connect and the dashboard becomes almost like a social media feed, showing your friends' activity & scorecards.

 

Another feature that will be added as the user base grows will be a points system to establish the most dedicated users and to use THEIR data for even further analysis.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Future Plans & Possibilities

 

I have a lot of things in mind that COULD be rolled out over time which might add to the user experience and make Fight Score a fun, feature-rich product.

 

- Fight Request: Adding fights is a bit of a pain in the arse, but I think it can only be done manually as BoxRec doesn't appear to have any kind of obvious and open API. I manually add fights to the database myself, and so this limits which ones get added. I tend to add 3 star plus fights that are likely on British / US television, and some 2* fights which might be part of a bigger, televised undercard. There might be some users with access to other fights not listed who wish to score them, so a simple for which can be filled in to then be approved might be useful.

 

- Fight Predictions: A lightweight fight predictions system could be a fun feature. Shouldn't be TOO difficult to implement, and just need to define how to go about scoring it, choosing which fights to include etc.

 

- "Live" Scorecard: Currently a user has the ability to share the "current" scorecard on Twitter after each round. This is purely generated from the URL, rather than being retrieved from a database. Currently a users scorecard is only stored when they end the fight. I might implement a way to save a scorecard as it is in the process of being scored, using a temp scorecard database table and AJAX to read and write to the database. This will also allow for the next feature.

 

- "Live" Data Analysis: With "live" screcards allows for live data. This would be great for when members are all scoring the same fight as it is happening live. With a live scorecard ability, we can collate round data, and display it in chart form for the users to see how their peers are scoring the same fight. As neat as this idea is, and it would be good for live TV, it may cause something of a distraction to the user from scoring the fight / concentrating on the action if they are looking at the data charts.

 

 

Thanks for reading

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Next round of updates to go live this week...

 

Quite a big change upcoming which in turn ended up requiring lots of additional functionality in order to work properly.

 

The main new feature I wanted was for "Live Scorecard" data to be processed. That is, when a user clicks "start scoring" it adds a new record to the database, and with each subsequent round they score, this record is updated in real-time.

 

Therefore, a user can simply share a URL to their friends, on social media etc, and it will update the scorecard on that URL.

 

This will also create and update the fight-analysis page charts for whichever fights are being scored in real-time too :thumb:

 

One consequential issue with saving of scorecard data right away comes when a user who isn't sign in uses the scorecard app. However it also makes most logical sense to get them to use the app and then save their data and join up at the same time when it comes to the end of the fight so this addition functionality has been added.

 

In its current guise, people can click onto a fight and begin the scorecard process, but they can only share scores on twitter; they cannot save the scorecard unless they first signed up before starting their card. This really is the wrong way of thinking so it was something to address alongside the live scorecard updating system.

 

So with the new changes, regardless of if a user is logged in or not their scorecard is added to the database and it updates live in real time.If the user isnt already signed up, when they "end" the scorecard they are prompted to sign up and join. In which case, if they do their scorecard is saved to their user account and is marked as completed in the database. If they choose not to sign up, or they just leave the site with their scorecard half filled out it will simply be erased.

 

 

Further consequential work...

 

I also wanted to add in a quick login option. In the case of an existing member goes onto a scorecard page before logging in.

For instance if I page in direct links to scorecards, users will be take there, see they need to log in, go to the log in page and then have to navigate to find the fight again.

 

Instead the user icon in the top right corner will display a user login dropdown box and login into the system without leaving their scorecard. They then simply continue to score the fight and save it at the end.

 

What's Next...

 

This live data section is really probably the last big game changer to be implemented for the system to be truly unique and robust.

 

The future work will then be making user profiles, and their dashboard account section tidy and user friendly. Beyond that I hope to make some demo scorecard pages to entice users to just try out the concept.

 

I have a list of 7 or 8 "classic" and close fights which I will hopefully find some youtube or daily motion videos of, embed them onto their respective scorecard pages. I will create a page to allow users to choose a fight to watch and score the fight and sign up and save their cards if they wish.

 

I will also be reworking the existing code to optimise it to be as efficient and fast as it can be. I know there will be some parts of the code I wrote in probably an overly complicated way, but I was simply learning on the job as I went. So I will gradually go about improving the code from a technical point of view as I go along.

 

Finally, I may look into utilizing a native app for Android at least. This will essentially just be a basic app outline, with a "web view" of the existing website embeded. I believe thats doable and would then let people download from the app store.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Been a while since an update, so thought I'd post another.

 

I have been pretty busy lately, but thinks are still being done to Fight-Score, however its been slow moving. And a lack of decent boxing for the last month or so has slowed down the social media activity which I try to keep up to attract more people.

 

I have been slowly overhauling the scorecard code, to make it more efficient and enable round specific edits (Rather than just the undo button). This is taking some time as it's quite a task to rewrite whats already in place in a more effective manner.

 

Also I have been creating some boxer avatars and will come up with some new design concepts which can include these for some visual improvements.

 

Once these are in place it will be a much better system, and there's more features to come. But I can really start pushing the idea and concept to boxing media to try and get more exposure.

 

There might be an issue however with the name though. Due to there being an app which can be downloaded called Fight Score. I didn't know this existed when I first got the web address.

 

This is especially so since I am going to try and create an app for it in the next phase. I had got quite a few requests on Twitter enquiring if there's an app. So that's something I need to look into.

 

 

Current Work...

 

- Scorecard Upgrade: Allow users to edit any round score. Clean up the background code to make it more efficient.

 

- Boxer Avatars: Cartoon stylised visuals to enhance the aesthetics of the site and to use for social promo.

 

 

What else is coming.....

 

- More Fight Analysis: A "quick view" of the fight analysis with one or a few smaller, quick reference graphs to show some statistics of a fight.

 

- Phone / Tablet App: Ideally a simple mobile app which allows web pages to render in the app.

 

- Custom Scorecard: Set up your own scorecard. Maybe for a fight that isn't listed on Fight Score, or a historical fight you want to showcase your scorecard for.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Meanwhile back on topic....

 

Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Something should be done about the 3 clowns who presided over the Fedor Chudinov vs Nadjib Mohammedi fight last Saturday at the showcase final event in Russia.

 

Addendum: make that 2 clowns - one of em got it about right. This bout must have been the Russian mafia's little tickle for the night.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Meanwhile back on topic....

 

 

Something should be done about the 3 clowns who presided over the Fedor Chudinov vs Nadjib Mohammedi fight last Saturday at the showcase final event in Russia.

 

Addendum: make that 2 clowns - one of em got it about right. This bout must have been the Russian mafia's little tickle for the night.

 

I didn't see this fight but saw a lot said on Twitter, and there's video of Chudinovs surprised face reaction when it was announced!

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

I didn't see this fight but saw a lot said on Twitter, and there's video of Chudinovs surprised face reaction when it was announced!

 

Not quite up there with the RJJ Olympics gold medal fiasco decision but not far off.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

One of my biggest frustrations is the apparent unaccountability of judges for their scorecards. Too regularly we see one judge hand in something diametrically opposed to the other two judges. So different in some cases that it looks like they have watched different fights. If there is a better scoring system in the offering I'm all for trialing it alongside live judges for a while to see how the results compare.

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Re: Use of Technology in boxing - Could this idea bring judges to account?

 

Fight-Score.com update

 

I've been putting in some decent development time the last few months to polish the system up some what. It's begining to feel more friendly and complete. The scorecard system itself is pretty robust and I am adding more and more features.

 

Unfortunately I keep thinking of new things to tweak, or functionality to add which takes up time (just one more feature), before I really feel like I can start to push the idea harder around social media to get people familiar with it.

 

I do promote it, but I can definitely do more going forward, and it's needed because there are only a very small number of regular users still, and its a whole lot of hours put in for it to stop there :haha:

 

In order to help with the promo I have created a "Demo" section of the system. Here I chose 4 fights of the past, close / controversial fights, and embedded youtube videos within so that users can watch a classic fight and try out the scorecard concept to see how it works. Hopefully this might get some users on board.

 

The latest thing I included, which I think Bobby had mentioned prior, is the ability to add an optional comment for each round if it's needed.

 

 

Next features on the list:

 

Custom Fight - Allow users to set up their own fights to score, so they are not just limited to those fights I manually add into the system.

 

Analysis Revamp - I need to rework the code base behind this, but I will also be adding some "Quick View" statistic graphs to tell a story of the fight.

 

 

I welcome all forum members to give it a go, sign up and be a regular user :thumb:

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