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Tyson over rated


Righthook
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Tyson has numerous fans, and I will get hate from this post, but those in the know, will agree with a lot of what I am saying.

Really he was not as great as people think. He looked great knocking out guys he was supposed to knock out, but struggled against anyone who could counter, or box and move, or anyone who wasn't scared of him. Did he ever win a fight he wasn't supposed to win? Did he ever come back from a knockdown to win? Did he ever avenge a defeat? Did he ever foul? Was he a great role model as the world champ?

Teddy Atlas descibed Mike as a bully and that he was mentally weak, not great material for coming through tough fights. He loved it when he was getting away with low blows against Ruddock, trying to break Bothas arm, trying to hit Tubbs one more time, even though he was clearly out, trying to hit Savarese even though the fight was already over, and gloating how he made Biggs squeal like a girl etc etc, but then tried to butt Holy, and cried to the ref that HE was being butted. This is the guy who laughed in an interview that he liked to hurt women.

He was short and this would normally mean he would be a good infighter, but as the Smith fight showed, he was not.

He was fast and hit hard, but never knocked any top contenders out cold, they were usually stopped by the ref, even a guy with a very poor chin like Carl Williams, was still on his feet.

Pinklon Thomas was a drug addict and Tyson hit him with massive shots one after the other, but he still got up.

Don't want to upset anyone, but this is my opinion.

Edited by Righthook
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Re: Tyson over rated

 

--- You provided no Tyson rating to tear down nor your own rating with those you listed over him, so what's your point?

 

Also looks like you focus on the degraded Tyson absent his all time great HOF team in the grips of mental illness with their horrid medications while being defrauded and set up by DKing. Whatever you think of him, Tyson took the boxing world and larger public by storm in a fashion not seen since Dempsey and at a record setting age that will never be broken.

 

Tyson made PPV into big business.

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

--- You provided no Tyson rating to tear down nor your own rating with those you listed over him, so what's your point?

 

Also looks like you focus on the degraded Tyson absent his all time great HOF team in the grips of mental illness with their horrid medications while being defrauded and set up by DKing. Whatever you think of him, Tyson took the boxing world and larger public by storm in a fashion not seen since Dempsey and at a record setting age that will never be broken.

 

Tyson made PPV into big business.

 

You seem to be a bit of a bully and hypocrite tbh.One of these guys whose whole life is spent on forums trying to force his opinions and relish his status as a moderator.

 

You are treading a thin line, behave! The_budweiser

You don't like a boxer and you unashamedly criticise him in every way possible, yet if someone has the audacity to make a point about a boxer you admire, you hate it. I rated no one above him, and didn't know that I was required to do so.

You say I focus on the degraded Tyson, I clearly don't, yet it is ok for you to focus on the degraded Holyfield. The one who the ring magazine said wouldn't last one round with Tyson, yet destroyed him without running, like Leonard is accused of doing in the Hagler fight.

You make excuses for Tyson, not having his HOF team with him, yet one of that HOF team Teddy Atlas told the world that Mike was a bully, who didn't like it when the going got tough, and that he was mentally weak. Well anyone who knows boxing will tell you, that is a terrible trait to have, and one with that, could never be a truly great boxer.

Again though, you ignore Holyfields illnesses, heart condition, bad shoulder, hepatitis, etc, nor did you give him credit for his massive effort in winning a fifteen round world title after only 11 fights, and having his lungs collapse. Tyson never dug that deep, every time he went down, he stayed down. Should have been dq'd against Savarese, Botha and Ruddock (continuous low blows) but hey, he sold tickets, so it wasn't going to happen. He didn't even get dq'd for biting part of Evanders ear off! He did it again, after being told, "one more time and you are out of here" to which he jumped at the chance, of getting out of there, before he was knocked out of there.

You ask what was my point? My point was that Tyson was overrated. Not good enough reason to start a topic of conversation?

I did not deny that Tyson took the world by storm did I? That makes my point even more relevant. Why did he take the world by storm? He beat a few bums easily, just like Bruno, Wilder, Benn and many others did. But when he stepped up, he was nothing remotely close to what the world had come to expect. Tillis lasted ten rounds with a young Tyson when he was washed up, yet Witherspoon put away a peak Tillis in one round. He struggled with James Smith, yet Bruno won every round against Bonecrusher until he got ko'd.

I think I will avoid your posts, as you seem to hate people I admire, admire people I do not, and are abrupt and a know it all, with no tact at all.

Edited by Righthook
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Re: Tyson over rated

 

Mike Tyson was at his prime from 1986-1989 Berbick TKO 2 WBC Champion, Smith W UD, WBA Champion, Thomas TKO 6 former WBC Champion, Tucker W UD IBF Champion, Biggs TKO 7 Olympic Games Gold, Holmes TKO 4 former WBC/IBF Champion, Tubbs TKO 2 former WBA Champion, M.Spinks KO 1 former IBF Champion, Bruno TKO 5 future WBC Champion, and Williams TKO 1 Williams lost to Holmes UD 15 in 1985 for the IBF title. Judge him on that all solid fighters.

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

Mike Tyson was at his prime from 1986-1989 Berbick TKO 2 WBC Champion, Smith W UD, WBA Champion, Thomas TKO 6 former WBC Champion, Tucker W UD IBF Champion, Biggs TKO 7 Olympic Games Gold, Holmes TKO 4 former WBC/IBF Champion, Tubbs TKO 2 former WBA Champion, M.Spinks KO 1 former IBF Champion, Bruno TKO 5 future WBC Champion, and Williams TKO 1 Williams lost to Holmes UD 15 in 1985 for the IBF title. Judge him on that all solid fighters.

 

 

Ok

Berbick was only a champ because Pinklon Thomas was a drug abuser and had stopped training properly. Thomas is also one of the guys on your list and was even more into them when he fought Tyson. Smith was champ because Witherspoon also had no desire to win, as he had major managerial problems with Don King, who had put Carl King in charge, and Tim was said to have lost on purpose, to try to get out of the contract. Even if he didn't lose on purpose, he still had not been training properly. Briggs had gotten into drugs and was on the verge on blowing his career, so was thrown in at the deep end, too quickly, so that his team could get their share of the big purse.

Bruno was another one who was only champ because of a lacking in the guy he fought for the title. Oliver McCall had mental health issues, and it is rumored that he was also paid to lose that fight. I am not saying that I believe that he was, it is just something that I read a few times.Plus Bruno was terrified..as was Mike Spinks who was a light heavy through his peak, and had really bad knees through running on concrete roads, hence the supports you see him wearing. Tucker had managerial problems too, and in his previous fight, only beat Douglas, because he was out of shape and ran out of gas, Douglas was winning up until that point. Carl Williams had one of the worst chins in heavyweight boxing, but still was not KO'd, just stopped on his feet. Teddy Atlas said Tyson was mentally weak, and that he was a bully fighter, a guy that loved hurting people, but couldn't handle it if they could box, move, counter, fight back, or were not scared of him. Which turned out to be true, as he never beat anyone he was not supposed to, never won a rematch, never got off the floor to win, and had not a clue what to do with an a very ordinary James Smith. Not trying to argue with you pal, merely putting these accomplishments into perspective. Nothing I have said here, is made up or exaggerated. Hopefully, it may have helped you, and given you a different view,as not everyone knows some of these things about his opponents, and yes, they do look quite good on paper

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

Ok

Berbick was only a champ because Pinklon Thomas was a drug abuser and had stopped training properly. Thomas is also one of the guys on your list and was even more into them when he fought Tyson. Smith was champ because Witherspoon also had no desire to win, as he had major managerial problems with Don King, who had put Carl King in charge, and Tim was said to have lost on purpose, to try to get out of the contract. Even if he didn't lose on purpose, he still had not been training properly. Briggs had gotten into drugs and was on the verge on blowing his career, so was thrown in at the deep end, too quickly, so that his team could get their share of the big purse.

Bruno was another one who was only champ because of a lacking in the guy he fought for the title. Oliver McCall had mental health issues, and it is rumored that he was also paid to lose that fight. I am not saying that I believe that he was, it is just something that I read a few times.Plus Bruno was terrified..as was Mike Spinks who was a light heavy through his peak, and had really bad knees through running on concrete roads, hence the supports you see him wearing. Tucker had managerial problems too, and in his previous fight, only beat Douglas, because he was out of shape and ran out of gas, Douglas was winning up until that point. Carl Williams had one of the worst chins in heavyweight boxing, but still was not KO'd, just stopped on his feet. Teddy Atlas said Tyson was mentally weak, and that he was a bully fighter, a guy that loved hurting people, but couldn't handle it if they could box, move, counter, fight back, or were not scared of him. Which turned out to be true, as he never beat anyone he was not supposed to, never won a rematch, never got off the floor to win, and had not a clue what to do with an a very ordinary James Smith. Not trying to argue with you pal, merely putting these accomplishments into perspective. Nothing I have said here, is made up or exaggerated. Hopefully, it may have helped you, and given you a different view,as not everyone knows some of these things about his opponents, and yes, they do look quite good on paper

 

[h=3]You never mentioned Mike Tyson problems outside the ring sounds like a whole lot of excuses[/h]

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

You never mentioned Mike Tyson problems outside the ring sounds like a whole lot of excuses

 

 

I assumed you knew about Tysons problems out of the ring, seeing as you are a fan, hence me thinking there was no need to mention them, but weren't they a bit later in his career anyway? I did mention that you may not have known about the opponents problems, and as you have labled them as excuses, it appears that you have not read up on any of them. If you find any boxing mags from that period, or if you google my points, you may find that I have not made up anything at all, and am not in the habit of putting boxers down for the sake of it, or of making things up to prove my point. It hurts when someone says something about someone you admire, but I hope you believe me that what I have written, is all from unbiased and relaible sources. Google if Biggs took drugs. or Thomas, or if McCall had mental health issues etc etc. Nothing is made up.

Edited by chaconfan
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Re: Tyson over rated

 

I wasnt having a go at you but saying thing like he only became champion cause of this and cause of that dosnt wash with me Bonecrusher only became champion cause of Witherspoons problems Smith was a great fighter that went 12 rounds with a prime Tyson and nearly stopped him at the end. Yes i know they had problems outiside the ring but so did Tyson. i mean Witherspoon came to London to fight Bruno and treated it like a holiday after beaten Tony Tucker. Pinklon before Tyson beat him only lost once and that was to Berbick.before that he kod Tillis Ratliff Weaver won on piont against Witherspoon and drew with Cooney i hate to see him without problems. You think the great Angelo Dundee would waste his time with a no hoper ? All fighters have had their fair share of problems outside the Ring through out history we couid sit here all day saying but this and that Corbett only beat John L cause Sullivan had to much whiskey. Buster Douglas shoundnt be champion cause of Tyson Toyko shambles. Mike Ayala got kod in the last round against a very good fighter in Danny Lopez. Ayala himself said he was high on coke that night so he should be Champ. Aaron Pryor had problems but he still had a great career. Problems or no problems going into the ring with demons some get away with it some dont its up to them but you shouldnt take it away from the other fighters it not their fault.

Edited by steelfistsmith
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Re: Tyson over rated

 

Wasn't a fan of Tyson during his time - often rooted against him. Over the years I've come to appreciate the incredible, devastating force that he was. An unstoppable animal during his prime. His major weakness was the trappings of money, fame and celebrity.

 

In the ring he was powerful, ferocious and exciting. An undoubted All-time Great. His Legend is even greater.

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Wasn't a fan of Tyson during his time - often rooted against him. Over the years I've come to appreciate the incredible, devastating force that he was. An unstoppable animal during his prime. His major weakness was the trappings of money, fame and celebrity.

 

In the ring he was powerful, ferocious and exciting. An undoubted All-time Great. His Legend is even greater.

Me neither...I think most of us "good guys" to put it that way found him a negative figure, too brooding and dangerous. He just had some negative kind of aura about him then. I guess it was as much a product of King's strategy as much as Mike's own difficult childhood. But then we saw him say nice things and do nice things, we saw another side of him in documentaries and interviews sometimes. I still didn't root for him until his career had finished...well, I kinda wanted him to win against Lennox, lol. I didn't like Lennox at the time.

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

Tyson whilst devastating at best had many mental frailties which became apparent after his aura became questioned in the fights leading up to his first defeat. The simple fact that the op indicates that his prime ran through the first Bruno win is more than questionable given that the cracks were very evident at this point which leaves us with a "prime" which lasted less than a couple of years, for me that borders on nothing more than a run (an awesome run given) of results as opposed to a solid prime of an atg.

 

Tyson was good not great, his input into the sport was phenomenal but his actual boxing ability, mental strength, and at times heart were all suspect.

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  • 3 months later...

Re: Tyson over rated

 

http://f.tqn.com/y/boxing/1/S/i/8/Cus-D-amato-Boxing-Training.jpg

Mike Tyson’s Legacy: Significant?

 

by Lee Skavydis

 

He was once known as the ‘Baddest Man On The Planet.’ He crushed everybody that was put in front of him during the 1980’s with a ferocious style that had not been globally witnessed since Jack Dempsey inflicted an insurmountable amount of pain on opponents such as Jess Willard and Luis Firpo.

 

In 1986, Mike Tyson revived the heavyweight division after the public were crying out for a new star since Muhammad Ali showed how magical he once was to many. Ali’s last career opponent, Trevor Berbick lost his WBC crown in destructive fashion after finally being floored with a left hook to the temple after Tyson missed with a huge right uppercut.

 

Berbick tried desperately to beat the count but fell wayside twice before Mills Lane reached ten before being counted out. Mike had just set the record for becoming the youngest ever heavyweight champion, beating Floyd Patterson’s achievement of being 21 years of age.

What followed was a four year excitingly terrifying reign in which Tyson made many challengers suffer and painfully persevere. One in particular, Tyrell Biggs, who slated Tyson before their 1987 fight, was made to pay after Mike cut him and used all kinds of fouls to inflict as much suffering as possible before Biggs succumbed in the seventh.

 

Read more: Mike Tyson's Legacy: Significant? - - Boxing News - Ring News24

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

I've got the vast majority of his very early fights on an ESPN Heavyweights DVD with early interviews, training, ect. With the correct kind of guidance he was receiving, it's clear that Tyson was something very special. Quite rightly Cus D'Amato knew that he needed to be fathered in many ways, and be programmed to be able to sustain the clean lifestyle and levels of performance/training required to reach their goals. Having read Tyson's autobiography at Xmas, it's painful to read his version of events in the months and many years after Cus' death. Tyson was a very flawed individual out of the ring, and he always got what he wanted, materialistically anyway, unopposed after fame came. Those feeding his ego at the time and supporting his lifestyle for their own financial gains, actually stopped Tyson from becoming his very best. Too much alcohol, cocaine, strippers and lawsuits. But then, Tyson's idols led similar chaotic lifestyles, and so was this an impressionable guy trying to replicate their lavish or crazy existences, whilst having a free-reign around town? I do believe that if Tyson had of had the correct management and positive figures surrounding him, he would have actually matured as a human being, but more importantly as a fighter. When frustrated by Holyfield, would a more mature and focussed Tyson who was mentally programmed and switched on how to deal with adversity and 12 round battles do what he did? Not so sure. Tyson's an all-time great regardless imo, and his accomplishments in the ring at such a young age at HW are outstanding, probably never beaten. All-time great boxer, Cultural Icon

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Re: Tyson over rated

 

I've got the vast majority of his very early fights on an ESPN Heavyweights DVD with early interviews, training, ect. With the correct kind of guidance he was receiving, it's clear that Tyson was something very special. Quite rightly Cus D'Amato knew that he needed to be fathered in many ways, and be programmed to be able to sustain the clean lifestyle and levels of performance/training required to reach their goals. Having read Tyson's autobiography at Xmas, it's painful to read his version of events in the months and many years after Cus' death. Tyson was a very flawed individual out of the ring, and he always got what he wanted, materialistically anyway, unopposed after fame came. Those feeding his ego at the time and supporting his lifestyle for their own financial gains, actually stopped Tyson from becoming his very best. Too much alcohol, cocaine, strippers and lawsuits. But then, Tyson's idols led similar chaotic lifestyles, and so was this an impressionable guy trying to replicate their lavish or crazy existences, whilst having a free-reign around town? I do believe that if Tyson had of had the correct management and positive figures surrounding him, he would have actually matured as a human being, but more importantly as a fighter. When frustrated by Holyfield, would a more mature and focussed Tyson who was mentally programmed and switched on how to deal with adversity and 12 round battles do what he did? Not so sure. Tyson's an all-time great regardless imo, and his accomplishments in the ring at such a young age at HW are outstanding, probably never beaten. All-time great boxer, Cultural Icon

 

You said it there-he needed mentoring, good and close mentoring and when he no longer had it, he was done.

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  • 4 months later...

Re: Tyson over rated

 

Tyson is regarded as one of the best because of how amazing and exciting he was during his early years. I mean look at what he did. He was knocking people out for fun, with easy, in spectacular fashion. His skills and and power were amazing for someone so young. He took the boxing world by storm. Everyone knew who he was. Most people knew who he was before he was convincted of rape, got out jail and back into boxing, bit Holyfields ear, etc.

 

Like Cus said, he could have been the grestest heavyweight ever if he had the right people around him. He was also unfortunate to have had the people closest to him die - Cus and Jacobs mainly. Then got frauded by Don King (as did many others). Let's not forget as well how he beat a lot of his opponents just through intimidation. He was a scary looking motherf*cker who you would just not want to mess with! Built like a tank (and was still super fast) and had a mean face that just shouted 'you're dead in there with me'.

 

Wasnt a great in the same way other great heavyweights were great but was still an awesome fighter. Just a shame he didn't achieve what he could have done.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Re: Tyson over rated

 

remember his camp saying circa 86/87 not only was he the youngest hw champ ever , he would also be the oldest such were the expectations. And nobody dismissed it at the time

crazy to think of an all time great hw having achieved it all and being past his best at 23. 2nd best hw of the 80's and cleaned house

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  • 4 weeks later...

Re: Tyson over rated

 

1st: Mike Tyson was the undisputed HW champ during 3 years. When shall we are going to say that again from another fighter?.

2nd: Most people couldn´t stand on their seats while Tyson was fighting. He brought excitement into HW boxing.

3rd: He is and maybe will ever be the youngest HW champ of the world.

 

I think that´s more than enough to recognize Tyson as one of the most iconic boxers of all time.

Let´s no talk about his private life. Only boxing here, please.

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