Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

I give kudos to Spence for going over there to fight Brook, I'm sure Hayman gave him other options but he decided to do what real contender do and go to the champions backyard. Someone above mentioned the possibility of hometown judging in England, but given the history of UK vs USA decisions tht would go against the grain.

A few in recent years like Tim Bradley (against Junior Witter) and Terence Crawford (against Ricky Burns) favoured the Americans. Spence has a powerful promoter, so there won't be any fun and games interms of the judging/bias. Hearn and Haymon have a working relationship, so I expect the whole thing to be 100% legit. Not that I have any doubts about British boxing except at a lower level i.e too many 40-36 scores for prospects against journeymen - when the journeymen have obviously won a round or two in a four round bout.

Spence deserves credit for getting himself in position and then pushing for the fight. Travelling overseas is something that greats like Hagler did to win a title. People like Jeff Lacy came unstuck. Fascinating fight to me and I really rate Spence. Great fight.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Good year for this division so far. Garcia v Thurman, now Brook v Spence Jr. If winners fight against each other, we will know #1 welterweight in the world.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Excited to see this get made but my first reaction is to worry about Brook back at 147

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

A few in recent years like Tim Bradley (against Junior Witter) and Terence Crawford (against Ricky Burns) favoured the Americans. Spence has a powerful promoter, so there won't be any fun and games interms of the judging/bias. Hearn and Haymon have a working relationship, so I expect the whole thing to be 100% legit. Not that I have any doubts about British boxing except at a lower level i.e too many 40-36 scores for prospects against journeymen - when the journeymen have obviously won a round or two in a four round bout.

 

Spence deserves credit for getting himself in position and then pushing for the fight. Travelling overseas is something that greats like Hagler did to win a title. People like Jeff Lacy came unstuck. Fascinating fight to me and I really rate Spence. Great fight.

Rob-

I'm always more confident in the judging when it's in the UK than I am here in the States. In most cases when US fighters talk about fearing foreign judging IMO it's more about their not wanting to give up the unfair advantage they have in Vegas etc.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Excited to see this get made but my first reaction is to worry about Brook back at 147

This.

"Can" still make the weight isn't the same as "should" still make the weight.

Are they doing VADA testing for this one?

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

This.

 

"Can" still make the weight isn't the same as "should" still make the weight.

 

 

 

Are they doing VADA testing for this one?

Go on then....so whats the advantage for someone taking, I assume some form of slimming pills, in order to make a weight they are too big for?

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- Size matters, so an unnatural big guy like Boner was huge at 130 and has proved to be mediocre at his natural welter size.

Theres also the financial when a fighter gets a short notice offer he's gonna move heaven and hell for a payday.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- Size matters, so an unnatural big guy like Boner was huge at 130 and has proved to be mediocre at his natural welter size.

I get that, thats why boxers get down as low as possible!! My argument here is that if Brook is now at a stage where he simply can't make welterweight as he normally would have done, are there some magic beans on the market that lets him lose that bit more weight AND keeps his energy levels/power etc to his normal 147+ weight?

My thinking was in order to make the weight, he'd need some dieting pills....and these wouldn't be performance enhancing as such...more they'd be detrimental to peak physical condition.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

I get that, thats why boxers get down as low as possible!! My argument here is that if Brook is now at a stage where he simply can't make welterweight as he normally would have done, are there some magic beans on the market that lets him lose that bit more weight AND keeps his energy levels/power etc to his normal 147+ weight?

 

My thinking was in order to make the weight, he'd need some dieting pills....and these wouldn't be performance enhancing as such...more they'd be detrimental to peak physical condition.

He would have to use diuretics, and yes the strong ones are listed as banned PEDs.

And yes, this typically affects a fighter's performance somewhat, especially his stamina. Also, having less fluid in the body on fight night increases the chance of brain damage, as there is less cerebrospinal fluid to cushion the brain in an impact.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- They have 36 hours to rehyrate and renourish, so hydration would only be a problem when a fighter is restricted to less than he would normally gain like the 165lbs Canelo was vs TUE.

I used to lose up to 10lbs framing houses in 100+ temps every day and had plenty of time to renew myself for the next AM. Thing is these guys are usually down to 6% body fat and then slowly reduce the muscle the last week and then dehydrate the 15 lbs needed to make weight, so they need the full 36 hrs to recover, but even so they'd still be weaker than if they just fought at a more natural weight which is why most traditionally move up divisions.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- They have 36 hours to rehyrate and renourish, so hydration would only be a problem when a fighter is restricted to less than he would normally gain like the 165lbs Canelo was vs TUE.

 

I used to lose up to 10lbs framing houses in 100+ temps every day and had plenty of time to renew myself for the next AM. Thing is these guys are usually down to 6% body fat and then slowly reduce the muscle the last week and then dehydrate the 15 lbs needed to make weight, so they need the full 36 hrs to recover, but even so they'd still be weaker than if they just fought at a more natural weight which is why most traditionally move up divisions.

Good post, but one small and IMPORTANT correction:

You cannot lose muscle. Well, not unless you don't eat for seven days and your body completely runs out of glycogen & fat stores.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- I went thru a spell where I was literally living on beans and rice for extended months and dropped down to 5% body fat and 20 lbs of muscle. I felt fine but was demonstratively weaker in my workouts.

Gatti had his fight with TUE rescheduled because of TUE domestic battering charges, went on a binge and ended up on baby food 2 weeks before they fought. For money fighters can move heaven and he'll to make the fight and working muscle without proper replenishment will leave anyone with the typical marathoner build as I had.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- I went thru a spell where I was literally living on beans and rice for extended months and dropped down to 5% body fat and 20 lbs of muscle. .

Glycogen is stored in the muscle tissue, so what happens is that as you deplete your glycogen stores (converted glucose) the muscle group as a whole shrinks. You don't actually burn muscle for fuel, and you don't lose muscle cells.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- If you can build muscle, you can lose muscle. Same deal with fat, it's self evident.

But thanks for the breaking news that cells shrink or expand according to conditions. The

sticks in the Hitler concentration camps having all their muscle and fat cells intact must have been great comfort.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- If you can build muscle, you can lose muscle. Same deal with fat, it's self evident.

No. Just no. BTW I have a Masters in what's know known as Kinesiology. I specialized in sports biology and biomechanics.

Honest.

Concentration camp victims indeed burn muscle for fuel, because as stated above, they were so starved that all of there glycogen and fat stores were completely depleted. The body only burns muscle as a last-ditch, emergency effort to stay alive.

Ans when you build muscle, you don't actually grow new cells. The cells you have increase in size. (via ripping and repairing of the cell walls.) You also build extra capillaries to feed those cells, which combined with more room for glycogen storage, makes the entire muscle group larger results in

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Still no official word on this fight?

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Really? I thought it was a done deal.

Hmm....

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

No. Just no. BTW I have a Masters in what's know known as Kinesiology. I specialized in sports biology and biomechanics.

 

Honest.

--- For sport I used to hop on my 30 lb 1962 Schwinn 15 speed in cutoffs and tennies to fish for you guys training scientifically with their new 20 lb $4000 24 speed marvel on the rolling hills in these parts.

I'd drop down a gear when I spotted them for high turnover to reel them in, so when I passed them silently, they were startled when upshifted to look over and see what was considered outdated decades ago accelerate past them. Oh, man I had the whole act down like a work of art because of course reflexively, they dropped down a couple of gears to accelerate with me, but it was hopeless as I was soon at top speed hundreds of yards ahead as they soon turned into specks on the horizon trying to find a gear to keep up when in fact, their failure was all in their head as they couldn't apply what they were training for.

Years later, I was never able to hunt down Lance Armstrong, but when I read his training regimen, the team would go way out in the country for their rides, so that's why I never caught him. As far as I know, the K bros are the only ones I know of who were able to translate what too often are narrow technical studies into a practical application. I'm sure there must be a few more, but anyone untrained can be improved by even poor trainers. Truly knowing how to get the best out of an individual almost always comes out of their own intuitive understanding of their physical and mental natures.

No modern welts today could come near the pace and ferocity of the first Duran/Leonard fight, guys trained by dumb old school trainers according to you modern sports....OK...

:smiley-signs097:

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

So Kell doesn't have the experience to beat Spence but he gives Jacob's a good chance to beat Golovkin, hhmmmm

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Kell Brook will face Errol Spence Jr later this year Credit: PA ... for the fight, which is reportedly set to take place in Brook's home city of Sheffield on May 20. ... Brook, 30, has opted toreturn to weltwerweight having suffered th

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Brook doesn't have the experience to deal with 19 fight veteran Errol Spence? Has he got that the right way round. I think that providing he can still make welter relatively easy Brook wins this one. Spence has looked good on the way up but really his results have been what any reasonably seasoned boxing fan would have anticipated. This one feels like Calzaghe-Lacey to me.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

--- Except that to Americans Joe looked like the lamb and Lacy the lion and I suspect more than a few brits felt the same.

Lacy actually won a title and had a better record than Spence, but no doubt in natural talent and attributes, Spence looks like a keeper, but he has to go through Brook in England, never an easy task, but Brook less experienced than Joe save the Golovkin disaster. I picked Spence in my predictor league.

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Brook doesn't have the experience to deal with 19 fight veteran Errol Spence? Has he got that the right way round. I think that providing he can still make welter relatively easy Brook wins this one. Spence has looked good on the way up but really his results have been what any reasonably seasoned boxing fan would have anticipated. This one feels like Calzaghe-Lacey to me.

Lacy...was..slow..and..Joe..super..fast..so..it's..not..a..great..comparison..for..me

For..some..reason..my..spacebar..keeps..stop..working..on..this..forum..but..not..anywhere..else??

re: Brook vs Spence Jr Fight Thread

Cannot wait for this. Tough fight on paper. Rate both fighters highly and I'd love to see Brook win, then meet and try to unify against Thurman at the end of year. Then move to 154 next year if that's what Kell, not Hearn decide. Sounds so simple but a helluva tough task. He has to expect a top notch hungry Spence, and provide a classy performance to really make people stand-up and notice. Forget Khan, this is the tough fight Brook needs to propel him to the real big rewarding fights and recognition he craves.

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